Heroes can stand for what is right, not just winning at everything ever. In the universe of ThunderCats, Mumm-Ra is the one oppressing ALL the races of animals. Therefore, they are against them. Firefighters die saving children from house fires. Are they not heroes because they didn’t get out or save more of the structure and belongings? If there is one thing the show taught, it was “any sacrifice is worth the defeat of your enemy.” “Enemy” could mean anything, whether it’s personal issues, a hard test coming up in school, drama, drugs, or whatever. The NS had a more realistic portrayal of heroes, much like Young Justice (they lose a lot). The same goes for Teen Titans. Hell, the series itself ended without them defeating the villain in the episode. And you could argue “they planned another season”, but hey, so did ThunderCats. If kids need the heroes that win every time, there’s an excellent show on at 9:30 on Saturdays called “Justice League Unlimited”.
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Really? You mean the people that didn’t have anything to do with how the story went whatsoever? Come on, that’s not even a valid argument. I guess I can say “I don’t like CSI because the cameras they use to film it,” and that would be valid.
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I blame the animators and designers for awful designs.
How can ‘any sacrafice be woth the defeat of your enemy’ be a good lesson to learn. Thats one of the stupidest lessons to teach anyone. What if to defeat someone you had to sacrafice and hurt people you loved and cared for, would it be worth the sacrafice then. I have someone I don’t like, to defeat him should I go and beat him to a pulp,? No because I’d go to prison and hurt my family and loose my job etc etc. Is that any type of a lesson to teach anyone? So yes I can blame bad writing on that.
FACT! , kids and adults didn’t like it. Want some evidence…hmmm 1. wasnt renewed for a second season, 2. has been put on at an hour when hardly anyone would be up to watch it, 3. Toy sales. All over the UK they are on clearance and even then they aren’t selling.
So my ‘opnion’ is based on some pretty hard fact.
You’re taking it way too literally. For example: OS quote “Fortune favors the bold.” Does that mean if I’m completely brutal and honest about anything and will take any risk no matter how much trouble I will get into? (yes) But it doesn’t mean that. “Any sacrifice” does not translate to ANY sacrifice. It’s what is keeping you from being the person your loved ones know. It’s what keeps you from being at peace. If you want a literal translation, “The loss of a coveted, petty object is worth sacrificing to end your struggle.”
You’re forgetting the “Still maintained ratings equivalent to the other action shows like Green Lantern and Young Justice.” Kids and adults liked Family Guy and it got cancelled for awhile. Same with Futurama. Same with Sym-Bionic Titan. Renewal depends on more than just how many people watch it and buy the toys, despite them being major factors. These include production costs, time slot availability, and several others.
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Family Guy got canceled because it ran it’s course. They brought it back because they were greedy for more money and because of that they have dumbedthe show and twisted the characters to be shells of their former selves. Family Guy isn’t even funny anymore…it hasn’t been really funny since it was brought back. Again, I lame the writers.
But those shows are bad examples as they were not directed towards children and not trying to sell a toyline to them that could have been worth millions.
p.s. please just stop arguing about if the show was good or not or whatever. the show was decent. it had it’s problems. there were both kids and adults who liked BOTH the NS and the OS. The show was in trouble because it wasn’t making money, not because it wasn’t a good show. Good shows get canceled ALL the time. Companies are here to make money, and only here to make money.
I did enjoy the NS before it went into hiatus but they really do need to get some materials from the OS. So that we may know that it really is ThunderCats. As far as I know, Lion-O appears to be the only character to show honor and justice while the others are just a big question mark.
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You know what was one show that actually stuck with its storyline and showed morals? King of the Hill. Now that was a show we could’ve wanted to continue.
King of the Hill was ok for it’s first couple of seasons but after that it became crap just like family guy wich has been crap since it came back. I still love futurama though and I really like this incarnation of Thundercats, also i agree that Lion-o in this incarnation would be the one to create the code of Thundera.
after reestablishing Thundera, I’d pictured Lion-O standing on the head of the palace, looking over the Thunderians, and preaching the Code of Thundera.
Right on. If the new series had been a carbon copy of the original show, people would have complained and asked what the point of it was. As it is, the new show has gone in a very interesting new direction, and people are moaning that it’s not the same. It’s catch 22.
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I actually do like Snarf. I didn’t much care for him as a kid but nowadays he’s my favourite character. Although the version in the remake is a bit pointless.
As for the formula stats - I think 75% might be a slight exaggeration, but you’re right about the formulaic element. Another formula would be:
Cats split up and are captured individually, Lion-O is confronted by Mumm-Ra/the Mutants on mass, uses catchphrase, other cats suddenly break free of their bonds/Mumm-Ra’s spell as if by magic. Admittedly there are some good episodes with this formula, but a formula it still is.
[quote=“LiamABC, post: 87327”]
Right on. If the new series had been a carbon copy of the original show, people would have complained and asked what the point of it was. As it is, the new show has gone in a very interesting new direction, and people are moaning that it’s not the same. It’s catch 22.QUOTE]
Can’t say that I’d agree with that outlook.
I am of the opinion that if the crew had revisted the OS, giving it a new animation look and tweaking the story here and there, the series would have been a success because it would have actually fely more like Thundercats.
Remember, not everyone will agree with your opinion that the direction the crew put Thundercats on was interesting. Given the various comments across the net, there are plenty who found it … lacking … in many areas.
^ There are plenty who really liked the NS around the net too. And not everyone is going to agree with you either.
I wouldn’t have liked it if it was basically the OS with a new paint job. And any problems the NS has probably would still be there if they had kept it closer to the original anyway, since it would still be the same writers writing it. I also like the world of the NS better. Things seem much more consistent and elements work better together. The OS had too much already established, and fans probably wouldn’t have liked it if the origins were messed with. If they had, it would pretty much be what we got with the NS, except using fleshed out versions of the old characters and some other minor differences. I think what a lot of popular cartoons have are very consistent worlds with history, like Avatar or Transformers. Thundercats never seemed to have that. Sure, there were past events, but they were often unrelated to each other and didn’t follow any kind of progression. I like how the NS gave the two swords a shared origin, and it turned the mutants into actual races instead of just bad guys. Not to mention giving Mumm-Ra stronger tie to their history.
Also, I highly doubt the writers and producers just ignored the OS, which seems to be what’s implied. Just reading all the interviews and hearing the answers makes it abundantly clear that these guys saw every episode and knew every character. It was an informed decision to create the NS the way it was. I’m actually rather surprised at how they included some OS elements like in the Berbils episode, or Snow Meow. And after seeing the entire OS series, I m very sure it’s not nearly as good as most people remember. It is chock full of illogical scenarios and plot holes. For instance, in the OS, despite Pumyra not being from Third Earth and getting stuck on an island with no outside contact, she somehow knows the legend of Luna’s belt. Things like that seem to pop up in the OS a lot, like the writers forgot the Cats were aliens. Or stuff like Mumm-Ra being able to recreate their entire home planet just to get a sword.
I much prefer the idea that Lion-O would create the code, because it would demonstrate all he would have learned over his journey, and be a tool for him to use in his reformation of Thundera to make it better than it once was.
i never really watched the OS series, so while watching the NS, i never compared the NS characters with their OS counterparts. when ever i watched the NS, i would watch and hoped for a well written simple show that i could enjoy and for the most part i did enjoy it. my own problems which i’m sure I’ve stated multiple times is that character personalities flip flopping every few episodes and a few unnecessary things that would happen in the show. Liono also seemed to be the one to keep learning lessons and at times even when he is not wrong in the situation. i get that he was the main character that they wanted to build up as the ultimate hero, but man…if the main protagonist is constantly being punished, it will get frustrating for the viewers. his fellow thundercats would sometimes even get rewarded for not even learning any lessons. that even explains why most kids on the cartoon network thundercat forum prefer tygra or the other cats as their favorites rather than liono.
i am still a fan of the NS even though some of the problems i had with it made it so hard to keep watching.
Never said anyone had to agree with me; just reminded that there are other opinions and outlooks.
I am of the mindset that had the NS been closer to the OS, the writers wouldn’t have been able to take as much fanfiction liberties as they did thus, there probably wouldn’t have been as much criticism of the writing as there is.
Can’t say I liked the NS world better than the OS only because the NS really didn’t show much of the world. The locations were very limited and at times, had no bearing to the overall storyline.
And tweaking already established characters wouldn’t have resulted in messing with their origins. If anything, it would have given a chance to expand on the characters origins by fleshing out their roles as nobles.
In the OS, the Mutants were seperate races, they just didn’t spend time detailing what was clearly understood already. I highly doubt there were any kids in the 80’s thinking Monkian, Jackalman, and Sltyhe were all the same species/race. And correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t the “Mutants” of the NS the “bad guys” as well? Not exactly like any of them are allies to the Cats…
To me, the Swords having a shared origin was just opting for an easy plot device. I much rather prefer the origins of the OS because it explained why Thundera was detroyed - something the NS never did - it gave credit to Plun-Darr being a dangerous place - a flip side to the Cats peaceful world, and because it gave an example that the Mutants weren’t the only threats to the Cats on their homeworld. By not having the Swords share an origin, the OS was able to gve the viewers more.
I’m not saying they ignored the OS; they do seem rather ignorant of it though. Seems to me that they spent more time bouncing around fan forums and reading what was said than actually researching the OS series. The Crew comments about fans taking things like the Code of Thundera for granted put a spotlight on that with me.
“And after seeing the entire OS series, I m very sure it’s not nearly as good as most people remember.”
Given the fact the OS is still as popular and cherished as ever, I would lean towards saying you’d be very wrong, not very sure but that’s me.
And given the fact the NS is chock full of illogical scenarios and plot holes - often more glaring than anything the OS could have dreamed - I’ll overlook your comparisson since you’ve comparred water to wetness.
Not to poke a hole in your provided instance but it wasn’t Luna’s belt, it was her grandmothers. They spent time detailing that fact in the episode. And btw, the Lunataks aren’t native to Third Earth either. Thus, it is perfectly logical that the legend of the belt would have circulated here and there and that Pumyra might have just heard said legend in the past. As for Mumm-Ra putting a planet back together, if you were a lich that had the power of Evil Spirits keeping you alive for all time, you’d be able to do some amazing things as well. Oh, and it was to claim the Treasures of Thundera, not just a sword.
You really might want to go re-watch the OS again because it seems you missed quite a bit.
I will agree that given the omission of the Code from Thunderian society, it would behoove Lion-O to create it - not to demonstrate what he learned from his journeys because it was obvious come ep15 that the Crew had penned Lion-O to have a leaning disability that caused him to forget lessons the day after he learned them - but to illustrate that after all the injustice, dishonor, untruths and disloyalty Lion-O faced from the other Thundercats, he was able to rise above it all to create a Code of Conduct that would hopefully ensure others didn’t recieve the same pain he did.
Gotta say, this has been a very interetsing exchange. Thumbs up to you for managing to keep my interest even though we obviously don’t agree.
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^This^
I’ve read it many time on many boards; Lion-O was the whipping boy and Tygra was the Gary Stu. That formula has never equaled success on any show.
We don’t need a back and forth on the forums.
