My resignation from the ThunderCats Lair team

Site Discussion Team Discussion
1

Hi everybody,

Please accept my resignation from the ThunderCatsLair.Org team as of today’s date.

I’m sure this will come as a surprise to most if not all of you guys. I apologise for not giving any of you advance warning of this…but, if I’m honest, this is a decision that I’ve only reached tonight.

Why have I decided to resign? To be brutully honest, because there are things going on with this site that I’m deeply unhappy with, and whilst I’m certain that these things are, at least for the most part, being done with the best of intentions, I’m nonetheless unable to reconcile them with my continued membership of the TCL team.

What things am I referencing? Well, whilst it goes against my nature to be this blunt, I am unhappy with some of the actions and decisions being taken by MannyF as Site Leader. A lot of these things are, to be honest, relatively trivial, and whilst they may concern me slightly they’re not things I would necessarily be moved to comment on, and certainly not resign from the team over.

However, an overriding trend in all of these things has been MannyF taking decisions and doing things without fully discussing it with the team first. Yes, he is Site Leader and without his leadership this site would not exist, but in the past we have always discussed things as a team with Manny at the helm, and I believe that this has worked very successfully. Unfortunately, recently this appears to have fallen somewhat by the wayside, and my primary reason for resigning is, for me, the proverbial “straw that breaks the camel’s back”.

Back in May, MannyF started a thread on this Team Forum, talking about changes to ThunderCast, asking the team how we would feel about doing shows hosted by him with guest panelists, in order to increase the output of new episodes whilst so many of the team (myself included) are currently extremely busy. The full thread can be found here: http://www.thundercatslair.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2824 , however, to quote from the first post:

From this I took it to believe that Manny was planning to fix a date for a ThunderCast recording, post it up, and if any of the team would be able to take part they would be welcome. So, I was surprised when about a month ago he posted up that Episode 6 of ThunderCast had been recorded, seemingly without any of the team’s knowledge. However, again I let this pass.

If I may be forgiven for being blunt, I believe I can now see why MannyF was secretive about the episode’s recording - for, only now when I log on to the ThunderCats Movie forum do I see that one of the “guest panelists” for the episode was former ThunderCats Lair team member, Celesta Johnston-Krantz.

As most of you are aware, I’m not a big Celesta fan. Whilst for obvious reasons I would seek to qualify the following statement by stressing that is purely my opinion, I found her to be rude, brusque, opinionated, melodramatic, attention seeking and generally someone whose presence on the team I considered to be counterproductive. She made a great play about being “ignored” by members of the team, which is a comment I found (and still find) offensive in what I consider to be its glaring inaccuracy. Immediately prior to her resignation from this team she described this site as “amateurish”, she has subsequently deleted any and all links to ThunderCats Lair from her (now deceased) website, and has made derrogatory comments about us in her (now deceased) blog.

I know that she & MannyF have remained friends, and I respect that - it’s not up to me to judge Manny’s friends, nor would I wish to.

But, with respect, in light of everything that has gone on before, I do not feel that Celesta was an appropriate choice of guest panelist.

Moreover, whilst I would again stress that this is only my opinion, I believe that the reason MannyF did not discuss the recording of ThunderCast episode 6 is because he knew that either a) there would be members of the team who would be uncomfortable with Celesta’s inclusion, and/or b) that Celesta would not take part if certain members of the team (such as myself) were also involved.

Bluntly, for me this is unacceptable. ThunderCast was created by the team on this site, and in my opinion, whoever is in charge of it, it’s not acceptable for anyone on the team to be excluded from it unless it is by their choice or through unavoidable circumstance.

I’m sure there will be some on the team who think I’m overreacting. That’s fair enough. But, this is something that I feel strongly about and, whether you guys agree with me or not, I would ask you to respect that.

It’s not all done in anger. For most of this year I’ve been extremely busy with musical projects that have kept me away from TCL work - I’ve also had issues in my personal (love) life to contend with, and 5 weeks ago my Dad suffered a heart attack. Although I have (and would have) continued to work on the site as my spare time allowed, at times it is a pressure and I feel as though I am letting people on the TCL team down by my inactivity. Coupled with my general dissatisfaction with the way things are going, I feel that now’s the time to call it a day.

I’m quite happy for all of the work I’ve contributed to remain up on the site if you guys are happy for it to be there. I have no plans to start up a rival ThunderCats site or anything of that nature - I have always cared passionately about ThunderCats Lair and would like to feel that the work I had put in would continue to benefit the site.

However - I would add as a caveat to that statement that I am happy for my work to remain on the site, provided that any text I have written is not edited or altered in any way shape or form by any past, present or future member of the ThunderCats Lair team. If any of my text is to be altered then I would request that all of my work be taken down from the site, including (but not limited to) HTML, Episode Reviews, articles, interviews, Encyclopedia entries, scans, screenshots, etc.

I’m very sad and unhappy to be leaving the team at this fantastic site. I am enormously proud of what we, as a team, have accomplished together, and am in no doubt that I will bitterly miss my involvement. However, I feel I am left with no recourse, and hope that you can respect that.

In closing, can I thank all of you for allowing me to be a part of this site and this team, and for your warm and generous friendship. I will continue to support this site, and look forward to watching it grow into what I’ve always believed it will be - the definitive ThunderCats site on the Internet.

Best wishes,

Chris Davis (He-Fan)

2

Chris you will be missed. I hope that, if not now, at some point you change you mind and come back to the team to continue being the superstar contributor and all round good guy that you’ve always been.

Best wishes in all you do.
Mark

3

Chris, wow I just didnt see this coming. Im totally speechless right now and I really hope you change your mind. You are a backbone to the team and really I dont how how we will be able to fill your shoes, I really dont. I plead that you find it from somewhere to reevaluate. We have worked out things in the past and believe that whatever happened can be worked out somehow.

I find myself agreeing with the issue about ThunderCast. It took me by surprise as well, matter of fact I didnt even know there was gonna be another recording although that may have been my own fault and overlooked by me if it was ever noted. My feelings towards Celesta have NOT changed, and truthfully her being on our podcast after her departure and her words is a slap in the face to some of us even more since it was done without at least the team knowing and putting opinion to let her be on it or not. I dont think I’d have any problem having a panelist unknown to us but giving a spot to someone who stabbed us with her words is just not the way to go about things. We shouldve at least gotten some sort of heads up that Celesta was a possible panelist only because of her attitude towards many of us.

Whatever damage its done, its done and I hope that there’s a way to mend things out. Chris I hope you change your mind, I stand by your thoughts on this and wholeheartedly agree but dont let Celesta’s appearance on the podcast push you back from enjoying the team

4

Didn’t see this coming.

I haven’t been here long and I’m not aware of any bad blood so this is all news to me. However, Chris, I’m asking you to please reconsider. You’ve helped me tremendously with these latest interviews and I couldn’t have done it without you, tbh. We (and I) need you now more than ever. We’re getting so much done here on the website.. it would be a real shame to leave now, just when we’re gearing up for some good things here on TCL.

But I don’t know whether I can convince you or not.. I honestly didn’t know anything about there being any sort of tension between Celesta and some of you so I won’t comment on that because it’s not something I know about. However, I really don’t want you to leave as you’ve been really instrumental in this website’s success and it would really suck for it to be over Celesta who’s not with the website anymore.

If you are leaving, thank you for everything you’ve done for me. I’d still like you to help me with any future interviews I get - I’m currently in the process of emailing this agency and trying to negotiate with them along with sending a letter out to Earle Hyman for a request to interview him. However, please reconsider as this is definately something that can be discussed between the team and not something people need to leave over, IMO.

5

Chris here…

First of all, can I say a general thanks to you guys for all your kind words about me and my contribution to the site. Responding to a couple of things/points here…

Mark: Thanks for your kind comments, they mean a great deal. I know that you & I have had our disagreements (indeed, based on conversations we’ve had in the past, I imagine we possibly disagree about this subject!), but nonetheless I’ve been extremely appreciative and full of admiration for the way you are able both to ask very insightful questions, make thought-provoking and constructive suggestions, and articulately express your ideas and beliefs. :slight_smile:

MannyC: As ever, my friend, it’s a pleasure to hear from you, and when I thank the team as a whole for their excellent friendship, you are at the forefront of my mind! Thanks for your supportive comments re: the issue that I have. :slight_smile:

Nick: One of the things that makes me most sad re: the thought of leaving was how much I was looking forward to working with you on the interviews side of things. You’ve finally been able to break down the walls and make contact with folks who can provide such detailed and clear insight into the creation of my all-time favourite cartoon, and I think you have (and will) bring so much to this site. I’m genuinely sorry that, so early in your membership of the TCL team, you’re now faced with this.

Guys, if I put my hand on my heart - I don’t want to leave. I still feel I have more I can contribute, and my love for ThunderCats is completely undiminished. As I say, I am very sad at the thought of leaving…but, I also feel as though I don’t have a lot of choice…

As most of you guys know, 5 weeks ago my Dad suffered a heart attack. Don’t worry, he’s recovering well, but the heart attack has been assigned to stress, and as a consequence there has been a lot of discussion of stress in this household, and how damaging it can be.

I’m sure most of you know I suffer a lot with stress, manifesting itself as panic/anxiety attacks, sometimes bouts of (albeit relatively mild) depression. I have autism/Asperger’s, and so consequently my life is built around stress, because I get stressed by stuff that other folks would just shrug off. All of us in my family live on a knife edge, and that has got to change, because it nearly claimed my Dad’s life.

Certain things that stress me I can’t cut out my life. But, when something that happens on a bloody cartoon website makes you shake with suppressed rage, it’s time to do something about it, and that’s what this ThunderCast episode 6 affair has done for me. That’s why I feel backed into a corner, because I really need to get unnecessary stress out of my life, and (with apologies once again for my bluntness), with the direction certain elements of this site are heading in, I can only see it being more stressful.

There’s also the nagging feeling I get when I sit down and try to relax, with a voice in the back of my head saying “Instead of watching this movie on DVD, you really ought to be working on the TCL Episode Guide - only 15 more episodes to write up and you’ll be halfway there!” :wink: Don’t get me wrong - I love the work I’m doing on the site, including the Episode Guide which has brought me closer to the show I’m so passionate about than ever before - but, it would be nice when I’m not working on it, but instead trying to just relax and unwind, not to feel guilty about it.

So, that’s where I am - backed into a corner. None of this is helped by the fact I have had a complete and utter shocker of a year, but even setting that aside, I still feel as though I cannot remain a member of the team if things are going to continue in the direction that this latest ThunderCast episode indicates the site is going in. I care passionately about the site, but frankly, right now I’m out of alternative options. :frowning:

Take care… :slight_smile:

6

Well.. First of all let me start by saying that this has come as quite a shock. To repeat what others have mentioned, Chris has been a significant contributer to our team, before and during my time here and TCL will not be the same without you. I have worked quite closely with him on areas of the cartoon section. Chris has also been the biggest help with building of the encyclopedia.

Overall I am gutted your leaving chris. Not only will the site be losing it’s main contributer.. It’s losing an awesome guy.

I must admit I share a lot of the views you shared in your resignation and feel a number of factors need to be addressed.

Luckily I know I won’t be losing you as a friend.. But still gutted for the team.

Kyle

7

I really don’t know what to say, except that the bad blood between you guys and Celesta needs to be put in the past. Yeah, she ruffled a lot of people’s feathers and she did it in a not so nice way, but to be honest, I had to accept a lot of things that I didn’t personally care for either, particularly bringing in Purrsia. She said a lot of nasty stuff about the site as well and we still brought her in.

The recent episode was for guest panelists. This was before we brought on Nick to the team. In the ThunderCast thread where I mentioned I’d like changes, I thought it was clear that I was going to bring in guests for one episode and have another with members of the team. I didn’t think it would be a problem.

Of course, the problem lies with the person I chose to be on the episode, and yes it was one of the reasons why I didn’t say who the guests were. However, does it really matter? Again, the only people who know about the problems within the site are us. I asked Celesta to guest on the podcast and she accepted. She put all of her negative experiences she had with the site behind her, which I thought everyone else did.

It’s one thing to ask her to come back on the team (which I would not do), it’s another to just be a guest on one episode of the podcast.

We are adults here. The whole Celesta debacle happened almost two years ago. My relationship with MannyR was rocky a couple years ago, but I decided to let go of those things and move on. Now, we’re cool (unless he’s upset with me too).

I’m not saying what I did was right, but with everyone busy and not having a lot of time to get together to record an episode, I really didn’t think having Celesta on one episode would be that big of a deal, especially since she was not interacting with anyone on the team (at the time).

Also from what I’ve read in this thread, I think there is more than just the podcast that people are angry about. I’m not sure what it is – the redesign, may be? I don’t know what it is, but I feel like it is more than just Celesta being on an episode of the podcast that people don’t like.

Is it me as a person? Do I rub people the wrong way?

And I know there have been PM’s going around about me behind my back. That’s just how people go about things here. And I’m not upset about that; I just wish they would have confronted me about it as well.

Just so that we’re on the same page, I really haven’t been all that happy either. I also feel like I’m in a corner. Sometimes I don’t know what my role is here. If I’m suppose to be leading, do I still need to take into consideration what the team thinks? Because with the exception of the recent episode of the podcast, I think I’ve done that…even when I think I should not have to. And then when I do decide to do something on my own, people are mad at me. I really don’t know what exactly I’m suppose to do.

In any event, I’m not upset at anyone. I’ll take the blame for Chris’ resignation. I really am sorry to upset Chris and the rest of the team. Just like Chris, I have enough stress in my own personal life and would rather not have to create stress here.

I just kind of wish people would come to me and let me know if I did something wrong. In retrospect, I know that I should have said Celesta was going to be on the podcast, but really…I didn’t think it was that big of an issue. Obviously I was wrong and I apologize.

I’m probably going to regret asking, but what else am I doing wrong?

I’ve also brought this up in the past about how I don’t consider myself all that great of a leader (there is a thread about it), but you guys insist I stay on with that title. I know I’ve been here since the inception of the site, but so have a lot of you as well. From what I’m reading in this thread (that the direction of the site is going downhill), why am I still the so called leader when the team could just override and say that I no longer am?

Obviously I’m doing such a pathetic job that it led to Chris’ resignation. :frowning:

8

Not at all.

This arguement is very double-edged - I can see both sides. Here’s my stance: I think Manny’s right. Two years ago since that arguement has happened, I do understand his position: is it really worth keeping the bad blood? Yes, I’m aware Celesta’s said some things and some of you aren’t fond of her (and I totally understand that). However, from what Manny’s said, she was simply a guest on a podcast and nothing more. She’ll probably never be accepted into the team again and I probably think this was a one time thing. And look on the bright side - we clear the bad blood, she might help promote us because she’s on the podcast. And we mention her artwork occasionally. She does some good artwork.. it can’t hurt, right?

On the other hand, I have seen that you’ve always talked about the podcasts and discussed a time, place, date etc. This seems to have been the first podcast where that hasn’t happened - I do believe this podcast was, more or less, done to get the ball rolling. Now we definately know next time to discuss these podcasts since it’ll be a team one - get a time/date which suits everybody and let’s get it recorded. Since one wasn’t done in quite some time, negotiating on the forums about this one episode would have further delayed things. I think Manny made a decision about the podcast and it’s ruffled a few feathers due to not being told and Celesta’s involvement. The forums are very quiet because, let’s face it, we have personal lives and things to do. So Manny asked me, asked her.. got it arranged, got a podcast recorded and got it out there so we have a fresh product instead of a large delay in discussing it here when it’s simply a ‘guest-panel’ show. Had Celesta not been involved, it would have been me and Manny and would have been more of a conversation. Also doesn’t add to the ‘guest-panel’ show.

As I said before, I really don’t want to see Chris leave over this. We need to put this behind us and get the website rolling - is it really worth quitting over Celesta’s involvement? Chris, I’ll be totally honest, I don’t think so, man. I think that’s saying that she still bothers you whereas it really shouldn’t - she’s not a permenant fixture and Manny’s still very much in control. Also, Celesta is one person. She’s not apart of the team - she’s got her art and such. But we are a team and we cannot lose one of our biggest contributors - in future, we should probably discuss these things in the forums.

I don’t mean to step on anyone’s toes.. but Manny’s done great for this site so far as have all of you. We all contribute to make a great website - and, obviously, some decisions are going to be questioned. But this website’s remained strong because of a loyal, dedicated team who love ThunderCats. Please, let’s not lose this now…

Chris, I know you don’t want to leave. Discuss how you openly feel and consider coming back - I honestly think some changes can be made and we can move on without anybody leaving the site.

9

Well I think it all stems from the fact that it was not mentioned to us that she was going to be on the podcast. The fact that many of us dont have the most positive thoughts about Celesta is probably the reason for what is going on. I havent heard one apology from Celesta for what she did, not once and I’ll be damned if I have to accept her being on the podcast or have anything to do with us. No way in hell, she disrespects the team and expects a nice treatment like nothing happened then guess what, my respect for her is gone. Hell, I’d be more inclined to have Queen Lynxana on a podcast than Celesta…she NEVER put the past behind her, NEVER otherwise she wouldve said so and wouldve put a public apology. Angie turned out to be a very humbling person, Celesta though it’s still in her high ego

Im slightly disappointed right now because of a decision that couldve been at least brought to our attention, but wasnt brought up to us because of the feelings we have towards her.

Manny I’m not gonna stress about this, we’ve been through this road before and truthfully life and friends are more important so I’m letting it be. Chris’ departure is a huge blow and Im sorry but my morale right now is crushed. I hold no grudges once someone admits that they made a wrong decision, to me a sincere apology goes a long way. With that being said, Manny your apology has been accepted but this should serve as a lesson to all of us.

I’ll leave you guys with a quote…“It ain’t about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done!”

One last thought but I’m sorry, I cant find myself excluding Chris from the Team Area so my decision is to leave Chris’ status on the forums as is. Im not going to lock out the Team sections to him, I just cant find it in my heart to do so

C’mon Chris…stay for the Wollo’s Donkey!!!

10

Chris here…

First of all, many thanks Manny for your reply to this thread. I want to preface this first off by saying that, yep, whilst I am ****ed off about this situation, I do consider you to be a great guy with whom I have never had any issue with in the past (at least beyond the most inane of trivia) and so I hope you can take my comments with that in mind. :slight_smile:

Re: the Celesta issue, I don’t want to devote too many more column inches to it, but would make the following points. Yep, Angie (Purrsia) made a lot of unfair, derrogatory comments about this site when we first started up, based on her own misconceptions of us as people and about the goals we had with this site. Well, to be fair, our goals were actually not that far wrong - we all considered that there wasn’t an “official-looking” TCats site on the Internet, with the largest sites being EOT (which is a forum and nothing else) and Angie’s site (which has a lot of content, but laid out in a somewhat chaotic way and full of personal opinion and casually-written text) - hence, you have this site. But I digress…

Yep, Angie made those comments, yep, we all found them offensive. I would say though that the biggest difference is that Angie made those comments before she really knew us, and without being armed with facts. Frankly, she shouldn’t have done that. However, getting to know the team over here and working with us for the brief time that she did (apparently) changed her perception. If she was smack-talking us now, having seen what we’re about, I’d be just as angry (if not moreso) than I still am with Celesta.

My problem with Celesta is that her perception of this team and this site is, bluntly, based (at least IMO) on her own warped and self-obsessed viewpoint of it. “Oh poor me, I was so ignored, oh poor me my work was criticised, oh poor me I started up a thread on the team forum about a fundraising run I was taking part in and nobody donated to it, oh poor me, oh poor me!” Which is fine, if that’s the way she wants to view things and it makes her unhappy enough that she wants to quit the team (for the second time), fair enough. But, immediately following that she completely erradicated any HTML links to this site from her own personal website (whilst I made sure that any links to ThunderCats Illustrated in the Comics section of this site were, quite rightly and properly, left intact), and criticised us in her blog.

I’m going to make one final obervation on that score. Manny, you & Celesta are friends. That’s great, and fine by me. BUT, if you are indeed her friend, and you’re the Site Leader of ThunderCats Lair, what the hell is she doing running us down (however mildly) in her blog, and removing the links on her (admittedly now deceased) website?! As for the rest of us on the team, whether she likes us or whether she loathes us, IMO if she’s your friend she should refrain from behaving in that fashion because any attack on TCL reflects on you - even moreso than the rest of us, since you’re the Site Leader!!!

Although I’m quite an intolerant person, I also consider myself to be extremely fair-minded - if Celesta had not done those things following her resignation and instead behaved in what I would consider to be a mature and adult manner, I’d probably feel differently about her now. However, I’m aware from those actions that her antipathy towards this site is ongoing, and as such I don’t consider that she’s an appropriate person to be invited to take part in our podcast…especially without discussing it with the rest of the team first.

As for the broader issue about ThunderCast, guest panelists, shutting people out, etc., if you read the quote from you in my first post, it did read as though you would be posting up the recording times, etc., for any members of the team to take part in if they wanted. If my assessment about this not being done with episode 6 was in any way inaccurate, then I unreservedly apologise…however, hopefully in light of that quote and the subsequent guest panelist you can see how I came to the conclusion I did.

As for the whole site leadership issue, I have to say that prior to recently, I’ve never had a major problem - and, I would say that whatever issues I may have had prior to this are comparatively trivial and stuff that would either be not worth me mentioning or stuff that could be ironed out with relative ease.

Yep, some elements of the site redesign concern me. Given that we’re not seeing or receiving any kind-of status updates to the redesign (even if it’s “At the moment I’ve done no more work on this”), it’s kind-of left the site in limbo IMO. Whilst I’m quite sure that you will, as you’ve stated, work with all the heads of the site’s various sections to make sure they’re happy with everything, because of the way things have evolved, I guess I’m used to just doing whatever I (or, at worst, Kyle & I) think is best with the Cartoon Section (accepting the Animation Art) and also the Comics Section, so in a situation where I may, as head of my section, have to ask “Um, any chance we could change that back to a bit more like it was?” is a bit daunting. However, a lot of that is my problem rather than yours! :wink:

That said, everything I’ve been shown of the redesign so far I think looks excellent, and so I’ve no major complaints.

When Nick’s articles begun being added to the site, it would have been nice when you were struggling to figure out where to put them if you’d asked me where I thought was best, rather than just log on one day and find they’ve just been placed somewhere. However, again this is complete and utter trivia.

Having calmed down a bit from my intial reaction (and problem) re: the Celesta/podcast issue, I can understand why the temptation for everybody would be to just stop communicating with each other. Bluntly, apart from the addition of Nick’s interviews, four Encyclopedia illustrations a month, and my occasional Episode Review (of which I have a bank waiting to be put into HTML, which I can do, when I get the time - which lately is never!), this site is dead. Largely, this is just through a set of circumstances, although I would also say (without naming any names) that there are a couple of team members who seem to have lost interest in contributing to the site - whilst I’m not suggesting that their team member status should change or anything of that nature, it all contributes to what is basically a dead site. And, as such, I’m sure that you, Manny, as Site Leader must feel as though you’re talking to yourself. :wink:

But, I still think that the (for want of a better expression) “chain of command” shouldn’t be given up on, even if only out of courtesy for each other. I’m guilty of it too at times, but try when I can to acknowledge people as best as I can.

Maybe this situation can be salvaged, I don’t know. I’m certainly not averse to moving on from this and putting this down as a blip, but if that is going to happen, the trend towards things being done behind proverbial closed doors needs to end…and, there is still the issue of pressure and such, as I referenced in my last post.

shrugs I don’t know any more! But, whatever, I am nonetheless grateful to all of you for your kind words about my contributions to this site - I never expected so much outpouring of generous words (and I’m sure you guys are exaggerating, but nonetheless…). Thank you. :slight_smile:

Take care…

11

Well I don’t have a problem with pulling the episode if you guys want. It’s not working on iTunes anyways.

Again, I never meant to cause anyone to be upset and I am sorry about it. Celesta will be disappointed, but I’m sure she’ll be alright with it.

Just take down the episode, I really don’t have a problem with it if it helps ease the tension. I definitely won’t make the same mistake again. :frowning:

Really, really sorry.

12

Chris here…

On the subject of the episode, what’s done is done and I think to pull it would actually make the situation worse because it would let folks outside of this team know that there had been a problem…whereas, whatever happens with my future involvement, I can give you guys cast iron assurance that (unlike Celesta) I would NEVER publicly criticise this site. I have too much respect for all of you (and I do mean all of you) to do that. :slight_smile:

So, please don’t pull the episode on my account, because I would hate anybody outside of this team to know that there had been a problem…

Also, Manny, I got your PM - many thanks for that. I promise I will reply in due course, possibly not until tomorrow now, but I will respond. Again, I would reiterate that although I have had issues with decisions taken recently, I don’t bear you any ill will on a personal level, and do appreciate the work you have (and do) put into this fine site.

Take care… :slight_smile:

13

Just out of plain curiosity.. where exactly are these comments on her blog? I was looking through a blog she’s done -TC Kratz or something and can’t see anything of the sorts. I assume this is another blog - are these recent comments? Or comments made sometime ago? I’m not entirely sure.

Either way, I do agree with Chris about the website. Not totally criticising it, but.. the forums are literally dead sometimes. I know we all have busy private lives and such, but - I had a thread or two about interviews and such and didn’t really get any response about from Chris and Manny. On my interviews one where I really needed feedback about the quality of my interviews, I didn’t get any and had to look elsewhere away from the site to get it. Of coarse, this is a cartoon website about Thundercats (a 20-something year old show) and so it’s not exactly going to be regular-every-day. In fact, it’s more regular than Purrsia’s website. Very nice lady - however, her forums and the site itself are rarely updated. It’s not a major problem for me - however, I really don’t want us to become a once-a-month update or something. Again, not trying to step on people, but.. I do honestly feel this way and it does hinder my motivation. This is a great website and I’m really proud to be doing all this work for it - but I’d feel alot better if we were all in regular contact either on the forums or via MSN Messenger or something.

This is all easily solved though - I like Manny’s thread with ‘Member Updates’ and such so that members can say what they can and can’t do. This is really useful. We just need to keep these forums busy and such and stay in regular contact. Chris and Manny, you’ve been regular helps and such so this is why I’m concerned Chris is leaving. Apart from Manny, I’d just be doing the interviews and media stuff for Thundercatslair.org myself without any real direction or anything.

Oh, and please don’t delete the podcast. I know some of you really don’t like Celesta or her being on it but I really liked the way it came out and hopefully we can do more of these. :slight_smile:

Chris.. I don’t know where you stand and such but would you be willing to stay to help contribute towards the interviews and such? It would just be swapping emails with you giving me some direction and me seeking them out and such with then me uploading the interviews for Manny to put onto the website.

14

I for one would like to see Chris stay as I honestly can’t see any issues here that can not be fully resolved.

Firstly: This fckin podcast lol.. (excuse my language.. Suposed to be used in a humorous context)

Whatever our opinions on Celesta and her involvement in the podcast. I belive we should move on from this incident. It was wrong of manny to proceed with the recording without mentioning Celesta’s involvement.

How do we move on from this?

I don’t think that deleting the podcast will achieve anything. Let’s leave the podcast online and insist that future podcasts, be it a team invite or guest podcast, are all announced before recording. This providing an opportunity for any issues to be ironed out prior to recording.

Secondly: The re-design issue

I share the views of chris that the recent work on the site update by manny has been largely behind the scenes. Personally, as you guys have seen, I like to keep the team up to date on everything I do on the encyclopedia. This way any team member involved in the encyclopedia is kept up to date.

How do we move on from this?

I guess this is up to manny. If he wants to make a status thread with progress updates and screenshots or post us some links to working bits. To answer your question Manny, I think this is the only thing that is lacking. The occassional “hey guys.. How do you like this new layout?” or “what do you think about changing this?” type question would be awesome.

Manny is a great leader.. I just would like everybody to be more involved in some of the descisions that are being made.. Be it podcast guests or potential changes in the upcoming site redesign.

This is how I see things.. Less war :slight_smile:
Back from holiday soon when I hope to discuss this properly.

15

Chris here…

First of all can I apologise for not having replied to this thread sooner - I deliberately wanted to take time away from it before posting again. Thanks to Nick and Kyle for all their comments - both provide great insight, and Kyle as usual is bang on the money with his comments. :slight_smile:

I think enough has been said about the Celesta issue in this thread, at least for now, but in answer to your question - the comments from Celesta’s blog are quoted in this thread: http://www.thundercatslair.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2203&highlight=Celesta (apols for displaying her name in read, it was easiest to locate it using the search feature!) There is also the thread in which she resigned, and the comments made both by her and the various team members at the time - however, only I can access that, as one of the forum’s “super mods”, because it’s been deleted from public view! :wink:

For me, the most surprising thing about my resignation has been the number of team members who have replied asking me to reconsider. Indeed, earlier today I received a PM from Nick practically begging me (his own words) not to quit! I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t flattered - even though, as I’ve said before, I’m sure you guys are exaggerating, nonetheless all your kind comments are very much appreciated. :slight_smile:

In his PM, Nick asked me if I would be willing to stay and assist him in his work on the interviews side of things. Having taken some time away from the boards and this thread to think things through, if (and only if) you guys are comfortable with this, what I would like to suggest as an alternative to my resignation is this - that I remain on the team and assist Nick with his interviews, and for a while make that my sole focus, and see how things develop from there - i.e., whether once the air has cleared and things have cooled down I feel less stressed about the site in general.

The one thing I would say is that, coming back to Kyle’s comments, for this to work, things have to change from the direction they’ve been moving in, which has culminated in this podcast debacle - however, reading some of the comments in this thread, I would say in fairness that it would seem unlikely that that would happen, which (regardless of whether or not I’m involved) I think is good for this site’s future.

As I’ve stated before, if I put my hand on my heart, I don’t want to leave this site, but felt I had no choice. If you guys would be willing to accept my suggestion above then I’d be happy to proceed on that basis.

That said, if anyone would be uncomfortable with this and would prefer me to see through my resignation, then I can appreciate that. I know that with this thread I will have ruffled a few feathers - bluntly (and not directed at any one person in particular), I think they were feathers that very much needed ruffling. But, I appreciate that in so doing it perhaps makes it awkward for me to remain on the team.

Also, I’m aware that I have a couple of PMs to reply to, including one from MannyF that I promised him I would reply to yesterday! I hope to catch up my PMs this evening, but to those who have, be aware that I haven’t forgotten you. :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

16

wow a lot of things going on since I last checked in! :eek:

Hopefully you will get them sorted. I now have zero time to even browse online, nevermind actually contribute to online projects :frowning:

Celesta sure knows how to put the cat among the pigeons :wink:

17

Chris, all I have to say is that we all need a change of pace and variety. I think if you want to concentrate on interviews I think thats fantastic. If you look at it from a different perspective interviews were lacking and concentrating on them right now would give the site more exclusive content. I’m very glad you have reconsidered and Im looking forward to what you and Nick can put together.

Im just deeply sorry I havent put out any sort of site contribution other than take toy content from Hollywood Heroes for a future update. Im just seriously strapped with time. Since being put on a supervisory position and going to school it has seriously put a damper on whatever free time I have. on top of my supervisory role, I will also be my clinic’s Equal Opportunity Rep so that will take more of the little time I have. Im just hoping to pull out of this somehow :frowning:

18

Chris, I’ll be delighted if you stay on in whatever capacity you’re able to. I would miss you too much if you left the site.

For the whole team:

I’m hoping that at some point soon I see a few apologies to MannyF on this thread, or that they happen through personal PMs. If you’re wondering why I say this, I personally feel terrible about what Manny must have gone through when reading this thread. We tend to have a lot of unfair expectations of Manny and too often we’re blind to that. Sure he made a political mistake inviting Celesta to do a podcast, but he’s manned up and apologized for that. He’s (I hope) been forgiven for that too.

I don’t appreciate that he’s been cast as some sort of autocrat who dismisses the wishes of the minions. In fact I think Manny is one of those guys who hopes for and seeks as much consensus as possible before moving on something.

re: the “direction of the site” and the overhaul of the format/programming. We’ve already agreed that we’re moving this way. Manny’s gone to great lengths and personal expense to get this ball rolling. We’ve all had our chance to voice our opinion and we all got on board. I won’t stomach a reversal on this after what I’ve seen Manny invest in the effort and I know that he’s keeping some of the lingering reservations top in mind. I trust that he’ll put the right site together. If anybody still has concerns, well at this point its too late and everyone will need to change with the times. This site will slowly expire unless some of this foundational work is put in place so that we can quickly and easily update content. 'nuff said about that.

Manny, for all that you do. Thank you. Thanks for taking up the leadership mantle despite not really wanting the role. You do a wonderful job and the vision you have for the future of the site is one that I think only a true leader and web wunderkind could put in place for us. I will fully support this work in any way that I can.

Chris, I really do love you my friend, I enjoy the energy and inclusive nature of your work and posts in this team forum. I enjoy hearing you on podcasts and I am sorry to hear about your father’s medical problems. My thoughts are with you and your family in what I’m sure is a difficult time. Please give some thought to continuing your work on the episode pages because I think that has been your finest site related contribution to date. Stay. Stay wholeheartedly and don’t worry about ruffled feathers because what doesn’t kill us as a team can only make us stronger.

19

Chris here…

Hey Mark, as always, my friend, I’m appreciative of your clear and articulate comments - and, again, thank you for your kind comments about my involvement in this site. I do hope to return to the work on the Episode Guide, which, despite my feelings of pressure and such, I am extremely proud of. :slight_smile:

Re: your perceptions of comments pertaining to MannyF in this thread, whilst I of course completely respect your viewpoint I’ve got to be honest and say I’m not reading it the way you read it. Prior to events very recently I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue with Manny, if I have it has been the most inane trivia, however I will be honest and say that I do consider recently that communication between the whole team has been chronically bad, and this extends to Manny as much (or moreso) than it does to the rest of us.

I’ve already qualified my statements above, stating that at times, with the inactivity of the team, Manny must feel like he’s talking to himself and so I can understand why he could be tempted not to as much. But, respectfully, if you take every other issue completely aside and chalk it up to my own screwed up and paranoid perception of life, this decision re: Celesta’s involvement in ThunderCast was taken without talking to the team first:

Now, since this thread was created MannyF has actually sent me a PM, to which I responded. I’m not particularly fond of quoting up private messages in threads, simply because they are, well, private! But, this is one excerpt from my PM to Manny:

Contrary to what you say, I actually think you are a great leader. For me, good leadership on a project like this is to take a broad look at the viewpoints of the folks you’re leading, and then make decisions based on those viewpoints, sometimes having to do things on a “majority ruling”, sometimes having to come up with compromises to keep everybody happy, and sometimes taking a lead on issues. In the past, I’ve always felt you did all of those things exceptionally well, and prior to recently I’ve never had any major complaints - and, I would say that the other minor gripes I’ve had are trivial compared to this issue. I won’t recount them here, but I did post up about my thoughts in my resignation thread - and, I would say that Kyle’s comments about the site re-design (which, BTW, I think is a good thing) pretty much mirror my own.

Kyle has acknowledged that Manny is, in his words, a great leader, as have I. But, respectfully, I don’t think it’s unreasonable if TCL team members have an issue with Manny (or indeed anybody else) to raise it - yep, if it degrades into personal insults, slander or slurs then that’s different, but if someone is capable of raising issues without being blatantly rude then I don’t think it’s wrong for them to do so. The alternative is that you either have underlying disharmony that nobody is able to address, or you have folks just losing interest in the site and wandering off - which to be brutually honest, in some cases actually seems to have happened on this team anyway (though not suggesting that’s in any way Manny’s fault). :frowning:

In terms of the site re-design - I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not suggesting that I have an issue (anymore) with the site being re-designed, I thought I’d made that much clear - I do, however, feel that, given that this site is comprised of section managers who have put a lot of work into the look and layout of their individual sections, a bit more communication and more regular status updates from MannyF on this would be welcome and helpful.

With apologies for dragging Celesta’s name into this again, one of her major gripes with the team was that she felt “ignored” - i.e., she would ask a question or post up a comment that would go unacknowledged by the team. On 14th July, I posted in MannyF’s thread about the site re-design:

To date, I’ve received no response to this. Now, I’m not suggesting that there’s any sinister reason for this, but it is illustrative of two separate points that I would make - firstly, that info about the site re-design is not particularly forthcoming, and secondly, if Manny’s lack of response to this is just an oversight, perhaps now he can see why I took offence to Celesta’s comments about being “ignored” when something like this would occur! :wink:

Anyway, this aside, once again Mark I say thank you for your thought-provoking comments, and again, thank you for all your kind words about my involvement in this site - they mean a great deal.

Take care…

20

No one needs to apologize to me. That said, I appreciate what you wrote Mark. Thanks. :slight_smile:

I’m not going to delve into the podcast any more than I need to. I’ve owned up to my mistakes, I apologized for offending everyone, and I know not to make the same mistakes again. I don’t have any ill-will towards anyone for what’s been said in the thread about me.

In regards to the site redesign, I haven’t done anything new since the screens I’ve shown in the redesign thread which was around May. I was trying to rework the template to accept flash for the toy guide, but was having problems doing so and needed a break from working on the layout.

I actually PM’ed MannyR about redesigning the toy section in May (I think), but nothing’s been shown to him or Neil.

As I mentioned in the redesign thread, I will work with the managers of each section when I’m at the point where I’m focusing on specific layouts. At this point, I’m still doing the general coding which the screens I provided showed.

If there are changes, it will only be made after the approval of the managers.

Personally, I do have issues with some of the current layouts and I do feel that I should be able to change the layouts since I’m not changing the content. From what I understood of the agreement we had when we introduced the aspect of managers, the section managers have control of the content of each section, but the layouts are up for grabs.

But again, if there’s a problem with that, I’ll do whatever you guys want. I have tried really hard to be accommodating to everyone and even if I feel differently about how things should look, I’ll do what’s best for the section.

Chris and Kyle have been very outspoken about their reservations regarding the redesign and all I want is for them to be happy. I feel like I’m under a microscope when it comes to the redesign so I really don’t want to show something that isn’t working properly. I’ve hyped this project a lot so I really want to make it worthwhile.

There is no timeline when it’s going to be complete. I’m not going to rush this project and when I feel it’s done, that’s when we’ll unveil it to everyone. I said this before…if you guys have content to be uploaded to the site, don’t hesitate to do so. the transfer of the content to the new design is my responsibility.

As for not responding to Chris’ last post in the redesign thread, I read the post, meant to reply, and just forgot to do it. There are many, many posts that have gone unreplied to…this was just another one. And for the record, I do feel like I am talking to myself sometimes, but not replying to a post doesn’t mean I’m ignoring the post or the particular issue. The week of July 14, my house was being painted inside and I had very little access to the internet with the exception to my ipod touch and I personally don’t want to post using the touch screen. The following week was Comic Con and only went online to PM Spideristic because I was purchasing something for him at the convention. I posted the Spider-Man thread on our site rather than He-Man.org so that we get the deserved traffic. In other words, the post just slipped my mine.

Lastly, I did receive your PM Chris. Thank you for your reply and letting me know how you feel. I will take everything into consideration.

Anyhow, if it’s possible, I’d really like to push forward beyond the problems. I take 100% of the blame for all the problems that have risen and if anyone has more issues regarding my leading the site, please don’t hesitate to let me know…via PM.

I will support whatever decision Chris makes regarding his role on the site.