Mature Fan Fiction Rules & Guide, discussion

I spent part of my babysitting job today writing out the rules and guidelines for a proper fic section long-hand. Once I type them up, I’ll post what I have here for feedback, suggestions, and so on before ‘finalizing’ them.

Some things we can discuss now:

–Rating limits. MannyC and I discussed this somewhat last night, but we pretty well agreed no X rated type stuff will be allowed, but maybe NC-17. The mature forum will basically be for R or NC-17 types of fics, and the existing fic forum for PG-13 and under, is what I’m thinking. There will be different outlines of ratings, warnings and genres to guide people when posting so everyone gets a decent idea of what TCL’s limits are going to be. This is why I want to post it all here first to get the team’s input before going further. What I might allow might not jibe with this site’s over all image and ethos, so input is welcome.

–Rating system. The MPAA is frowning upon the use of their movie system by fic archives, so we’ll want to come up with our own perhaps only using movie ratings as a well-known point of comparison/reference in the guide.
I can come up with a preliminary system for the mature area, but input is welcome.

–Genres. Should there be entire genres of fic that are just not going to be dealt with here? Such as incest fic, rape fic, vore (which, if you don’t know is basically fic involving the sexualization of cannibalism - literally getting eaten and loving it), etc
I definitely put in that fics promoting illegal activities such as underage sex were off limits, even in the mature forum. However, some of those genres could involve more, eh, shall we say legitimate approaches artistically. Such as incest mentioned in the context of overcoming and surviving it. Same for issues like rape. The only prob I really have with rape fic is that in most fandoms, this one not excluded, it’s mostly used as a twisted romance plot device where the victim actually ends up falling in love with their attacker and everything is just wiped away like no crime was committed…or it starts out non-con, but the victim starts loving it halfway in. You know, the old “she really wanted it, she just didn’t realize it til she was taken” plot >.<
In short, few writers use the subject sensitively, realistically, and so on. But there are some that do, and should we punish them for a batch of writers that don’t think their brilliant plots all the way through? It’s a sensitive subject at any rate, and if it is allowed at all, will have to carry an appropriate warning.
Anyway, those are some offhand really hot-button fic genres/topics I can think of to consider whether we should allow them at all or in what capacity…discuss. And if you can think of any other iffy territory, bring it up.

–Along the same lines, what about songfics? They’re usually not personally offensive but they are controversial for copyright issues with posting song lyrics. Yes or no?

–Because fics in the mature area can contain any number of plot devices, scenes, and subjects that can be a turnoff to people - and yet everyone has different sensitivities and such - that I’d like to require every fic in the mature area have a header placed on it that any reader can look at and get an idea straight off what they’re possibly in for by reading on. This is the form I came up with:

Title:
Author:
Status: (such as complete, one-shot, or WiP)
Summary: (must be at least a quick synopsis of the plot, no ‘just read it’ or ‘I suck at summaries’ type of stuff allowed)
Genre(s):
Pairing(s): (optional)
Rating:
Warnings:
Disclaimer: (the legal yadda about not owning tcats, story is non-profit etc etc)

This way, if this header is on every fic, then if a reader goes on and is offended by something that was warned for, the author has recourse. 'Hey, I warned ‘em’.

Good idea, or no? Any suggestions for less, more?

That’s it for now. I got more typing to do, so this’ll give you something to chew on til I get done. Might not be posted til tomorrow though but I will get on it asap.

Thanks.

You know Angie that although I am not too experienced in the fic area I would have to say that things like incest,sexually involving children and to an extent a topic like rape should not be allowed. Rape is seen in many movies but its not really something widely seen even in your typical NC-17 movie. Subjects as cannibalism although not widely seen too but it could be seen even in real life as a form of survival. Remember the story about an airplane that crashed and the people had to eat the frozen dead just to stay alive? That i think is pretty acceptable but just to eat someone for the hell of it is just going a little bit too far. Then again it also depends how deep the storyline gets. I think you’re a pretty good judge of what can go and what cannot go when you compare it to a NC-17 movie. Overall what you have summed up is prettty good IMO and I really have no objections.

Chris here…

My own $0.02 would be that anything with a suitable disclaimer is OK in the mature fic area, as long as it doesn’t gratuitously glorify something in bad taste - by bad taste, I mean stuff like paedophilia, rape, and so on. If used purely as a storytelling device I think most things in that area should be acceptable, for me it would only cross over into unacceptable if it was there to glorify something like that rather than use it as a storytelling device. :slight_smile:

You’ve clearly put a lot of thought into this, Angie, it’s brilliant to see! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Thanks, Chris and Manny for your input. I’ve started typing, and this is what I have so far. Some of the formatting is probably going to be lost on the forum with the paste, but I can reformat it for the web when I actually go to post it in the mature forum.
I also haven’t finished the genres, the last part. But I’m out of time and have to go to work. I hope I can either finish that tonight or tomorrow, so let me know though what you think of it so far…and if I should break it up into seperate posts in the fic forum - it’s a long doc! 5 pages so far in word. I like to be thorough :slight_smile:

TCL.org Mature Fan Fic Forum Rules and Guide

Rules : For writers and readers

· You must be 18 or older to join this forum, of if you’re here you’ve already assured the mod or admin that gave you the password you are of age. If it comes to light that anybody lied, they will be immediately banned from the board.
· If you are a fic writer and wish to post your work here, ask a mod or admin for your own sub-forum. This will keep your work in one tidy spot, and is especially useful for multi-part fics to be better organized. The general area of forum can be used to discuss fan fic related topics, especially if the topic involves mature fic themes or ideas.
· Writers, also be sure to check out our guide for help in properly labeling your fics with warnings and such. We want our readers to make the most informed decision they can to read or not to read. No “X” rated work will be allowed here. This forum is for what you might consider “R” through “NC-17” types of stories. Hence the warnings and disclaimers we will be requiring on all stories posted in this area.
· Moderators and admins reserve the right to disallow any fic deemed too extreme. Mature does not = free reign to shock or pile on the squick. Read our guidelines, use your better judgment and if all else fails and you’re unsure, ask before posting your story.
· That said, mods and admins can’t read every fic submitted word for word, so we’re going on an honor system here. Please read the guidelines for lists of ratings, warnings, and formatting requirements for this area before you begin. You won’t get your own forum until you assure us you’ve read and understood these rules and what is to follow. Lying (and we’ll find out when you do everything wrong) may result in the loss of your forum or a suspension of your account.
· Furthermore, if you make a habit of leaving out important warnings and people are complaining, action will be taken. Obviously, the cases will be handled with several things taken into account. If you’re a known, contributing writer and just made a goof, we’ll give you a warning and ask you to put the missing disclaimer in. However, trolls writing trollfic will be dealt with immediately.
· For readers, feedback is usually welcome. Feel free to post comments or questions on a story in their threads and/or specific threads an author might set up for feedback. An author should make it obvious if they don’t wish to receive concrit and do try to respect that. If crit is welcome, do keep it constructive (the ‘con’ in concrit) and on the helpful side while balancing that with a comment or two on what did work in the story. And always keep your comments directed at the story, not the author. Personal attacks on writers won’t be tolerated, and any readers deemed to be trolling the forum will be dealt with immediately.
· Also for readers, pay attention to the headers at the beginning of each fic and the warnings and other disclaimers that are put there. For instance if cursing offends you and someone has marked their story for language, odds are if you read on you’re not going to be amused. If you read on anyway, please don’t complain to mods, admins or the author about it. You were warned for a reason. However, if a writer failed to mark a story with an appropriate warning (a list can be found in the Guide) then let us know and we’ll ask the author to amend that. Likewise, if there’s a warning you think should be on our list but isn’t, politely let us know and we’ll consider adding it. But do understand the part of the risk of coming to this forum is there’s going to be stories with elements that go to a level of maturity that surpasses the canon. Familiarize yourself with our rating system and warning lists so you know what you may be in for before reading a given story. You really do read at your own risk here.
· Also, any fic existing purely to advocate illegal activity will be prohibited and deleted. Obviously, your story can look at illegal or immoral acts (drug use etc), but its tone shouldn’t be that of promotion of the activity in anybody’s real life or done in bad taste (i.e. don’t trivialize matters such as rape or abuse so that it is done in poor taste). No underage sex can be described or implied in stories, either, so be sure your characters are of an acceptable, legal age. Yes, I know they’re not real but it’s the principle of it. And since laws vary state to state and country to country, we’ll say for the sake of argument and averages that any characters engaging in sexual activity in fic should be at least 18 or older. In other words, if you want Kit to see some action, you better age her first.
· When reporting a fic for a perceived violation of our rules and guidelines, be sure to supply us with a link, what rule you think they broke, and a portion of the most offending bit of the fic. It’ll help us investigate faster. Do be sure a fic is really in violation, though, by reading these rules and guidelines over. If the fic is deemed to be fine but you reported it anyway, chances are we might come down on you for wasting our time. And besides, this is not the time or place for grudge wank so definitely don’t report someone because you don’t like the review they left you or other such petty actions. You’re in the mature forum, act it.

Header Requirements, Ratings and Warnings Guide

· First of all, all fics should have a header on them with the information as follows:

Title:
Author:
Status: (such as one-shot, complete, in-progress)
Summary: (Please no ‘just read it’ or ‘I suck at summaries’ kind of things here. It’s important to give the reader in a forum like this a quick gist of your plot in the summary and it usually can be done in just a few sentences. This field is REQUIRED)
Pairing(s): (Optional – list any romantic couplings your story features if you wish)
Character(s): (Optional – list characters or character groups with starring roles if you wish)
Rating: (Required – see our list of ratings seems how we can’t use the movie system…we have our own!)
Genre(s): (Required. A list of possibilities and what they usually mean will follow below)
Warnings: (Required. A list of the biggest warnings can be found below, which lets the reader know basically what type of content earned the fic its rating. Where someone might be fine with language, they may not like sexual themed things so be sure to warn for any and all)

Do note that if you’re writing a multi-part story, you only have to put this header on your first part or chapter. You can, if you wish, reiterate particular warnings again in an author’s note or something, at the top of the chapter it most applies to. That’s up to you. CYA as you see fit.
Ratings:

The MPAA is frowning upon use of their movie rating systems in fic archives. So to protect TCL legally, we’ve come up with our own version, only using the MPAA version below as means of comparison/reference. Fics posted must use our new system. Thanks.

· “G” will be Level 1, here. A Level 1 fic would be about as harmless as the canon material and can be posted in the open, general fan fiction forum (link)
· “PG” will be Level 2. Level 2 fics touch upon or elude to themes that are a little too heavy or complex for youngsters to grasp, so parents may have to decide if they want their kids pondering such things. Also can include aspects like milder language or mild violence. Such fics can also go in the other fic forum.
· “PG-13” will be Level 3. Such fics are generally recommended for young people in their teens or older, due to either subject matter or language and violence levels. Parental judgment for the under 18 crowd still recommended.
· “R” will become Level 4 and this is why we have this restricted forum. These fics will have some aspect that’s potential offensive to someone’s sensibilities whether it be stronger language, stronger violence, and/or adult themes of some sort. Examples of adult situations would be subject matter/elements the show never dealt with that can be considered too heavy, controversial, or offensive, or perhaps subjects the show simplified (like drug addiction) but your story delves into it deeper. Death, sexual subjects, mild scenes, or innuendo, and other mature or complex subject matters would be considered adult situations. The warning list will help you get specific with that, but if your fic contains any or all of those elements, give it a Level 4 rating. No underage sex can be depicted, however.
· “NC-17” will be Level 5. These fics are not for the under 18 crowd at all regardless of adult input, and as a general rule will contain a blunt look at something bound to offend someone, somewhere and usually entails some sexual content as well. This rating covers issues the Level 4 looks at, but the intensity is ramped up, basically, to earn it this higher level. There’s more details, things are more graphic than a Level 4, and so on. No underage sex can be depicted, however.
· X is not allowed here at all, so if the story is dripping with profanity, violence and gore, and hardcore sex scenes they don’t belong at TCL at all. Sorry.

If you are unsure what to rate your fic, you can ask for help in the discussion area of the mature forum, or seek a mod’s thoughts on it. Then again, if all else fails, rate it one step higher than you initially figured. It covers your bum, even at the risk of upsetting some reader that thought they were in for say, a steamier story than they got. I’d rather have someone irked there was less sexy than they wanted than someone looking to avoid that altogether and running across it unexpectedly.

Warnings:

Adult Situations: A broader warning covering any number of things that might be handled in the story such as drug use, deaths, sexual themes and innuendo, complex relationships, frightening imagery, and so on, that younger readers would grapple with. Good if you have things in there that aren’t covered by the terms below.

Character Death: This one is tricky, so use your judgment. There are instances where this warning can spoil a story, but if you can warn readers of this and not spoil the story please do so. This generally implies that a canon character that didn’t die in the show is going to die at some point in the story, applying less-so to OC’s.

Mild Language: This covers cursing and other ‘colorful’ language of the milder variety. Language used should be among what is generally the least offensive oaths, and occur sparingly.

Mild Sexual Content: For the more fluffy romance scenes, or romance novel types of sexual scenes. Also good warning for any innuendo or the fade-to-black kind of sex scenes (implied sex). Basically, if the sex scenes don’t happen frequently and aren’t described in play-by-play detail, this is the warning for you.

Mild Violence: For violence that goes beyond the ‘cartoony’ stuff in the show, and yet isn’t described in too graphic of detail. Meaning, a character can get hurt and bleed, and that be mentioned, but you don’t go into huge detail about the character’s pain or wounds.

Rape: If your story contains any implied or described non-con or rape, you have to put this warning on it. Non-con means ‘non-consensual’.

Strong Language: For stories that use stronger curse words or really colorful expressions. Still, there shouldn’t be stories laden with F-bombs and offensive language so use some restraint.

Strong Sexual Content: For steamier, more detailed in description action that would earn a story an automatic Level 5 rating. Or for stories that are built around sexual stuff, where it happens rather frequently. Basically, your average lemon fic warning. However, keep in mind X isn’t allowed, so let’s not go overboard.

Strong Violence: If the violence in your story is shown in gripping detail, use this warning. Still, we’re not aiming for stories that drip in nothing but blood or just have graphic violence for the sake of it. Be reasonable.
Genres:

If a genre you know of and want to use is not listed, please let the mod know and it’ll be considered for adding. For now, these are some basic, accepted genres.

AU (Alternate Universe): There are generally two kinds of AU fics. One is the ‘what if’ scenario, such as “What if Thundera never exploded?” and the writer begins from that altered premise. Or the author pics a point in canon to diverge from significantly, altering the course from there on out. For example, they rewrite the anointment trials in some way, making canon altered from that point on out.
The other kind usually takes the canon characters and puts them in another setting entirely, such as “The Thundercats visit modern day Earth” scenario.

Geez i dont know if there is anything else to add to it. It’s pretty thorough IMO and should cover any and all questions people may have. Excellent Angie!!!

Thanks! I"ve spent a fair amount of time in the ficcing sub-culture of internet so I guess being thorough has come of it :wink:

Once I add the rest of the genres, it should be finished save for any amendments the team can suggest.
Oh and what about songfics? Are we going to allow song lyrics to be placed in stories or would you rather not deal with the possible legality of that from a copyright standpoint? If not, it’s not a big deal but I’ll just not bother to list it in the genres if we’re not going to allow it, and I’ll add a note about that in the rules instead.

I’d say go with songfics, i dont think there will be much legal issues with that. If so then it is something that could be taken care of when and if the time comes

Chris here…

Just to add, I have a pal called Mikey who posts a lot on the forums at www.he-man.org, and he is forever quoting song lyrics in his posts over there, which doesn’t seem to cause any problems at all. In fact, I would have thought that reproducing song lyrics in a story should only have a legal ramification if said story is actually published somewhere or made available to purchase - would that be right or have I got the wrong end of the stick? :slight_smile: I wouldn’t have thought that in a fanfic it would be possible for there to be a copyright issue, unless it was for plagarism {spellcheck}…? :slight_smile:

So, FWIW I think MannyC’s call on that is the right one, although given my shaky knowledge of legality I am very much open to correction, LOL! :smiley:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Well, I just know fanfiction.net banned songfics a while back because lyrics, unless they’re in the public domain such as those to “Happy Birthday”, are subject to legal issues and maybe ffnet was worried about record companies or artists coming down on them for allowing reproduction of the lyrics w/o permission. It’s kinda funny when you think about the nature of fan fic itself, but that’s what happened. That, and I think they were having problems with a lot of people’s fics being more lyric than actual fic, if you know what I mean, so it was almost like plagiarism - especially if people are being sloppy about crediting the song. It’s like stealing poetry or something.

However, many fic sites still allow songfics, mine included, so I just wondered what we wanted to do here for that. I will note that crediting the lyrics properly is a must and that the fic cannot be mostly just the lyric. That should take care of that.

Pardon the double post, but I just wanted to let you all know I posted up the full (and hopefully complete) rules and guide to the mature forum. If anyone has suggestions or amendments let me know.

And eventually I will start hauling my epic number over there - it’s just going to take time. I have so far about 36 chapters to transfer, and the story’s not even halfway finished :yikes:

Pardon the triple post…but now that we’ve set up, did some tweaking and have a few fics in the mature section - should we announce this on the front page? I don’t know if you normally post updates/changes to the forum on the page but the fic and art sections, to me, are like an extension of your content and may get more use/traffic if people were made more aware. I know on most sites I wouldn’t assume the forum held fanworks when I first arrive looking for things of that nature. Perhaps visitors that nomrally would be interested in that aspect overlook it, because I also don’t remember other links to it from the main site. Or maybe I just didn’t look close enough.

I’ve nothing against the message board set-up for art and fic - there’s some fun advantages to that format other methods of archiving don’t have - but I’ve noticed it does take a little more effort to make people aware you even host it. The areas do alright but I suspect they could do even better.

At any rate, our only other participant in the adult section came from EOT due to advertising the new forum over there. From my tenure in the Tcats ficcing community I have noticed a majority of writers tend to write for adult audiences, so this new forum could potentially really boost TCL’s fic volume. People just need to become aware of it, especially if they had been here before and thought they couldn’t post their work because of how it was set up before now.
I put a message up on my site too, but if anyone can think of anywhere else where mentioning the mature forum (and the other fanworks forums in general - there was changes done to all of them after all) would be good and appropriate, go for it.

Anyway, I’m going to go read Linda’s story and post a response to it. I think if people also see stories in there are getting read/responded to they’ll be more apt to join and post their stuff too (kinda like we jump to greet newbies on the forum so they know it’s an active board where they won’t just be posting to the crickets). Writers loves them some feedback :wink: And luckily, her story is short :lol:
If anyone else on the team likes to read fic, if you haven’t already it might be a good idea to check out some of the stories in the regular forum too and give them some love.

I’m also going to try to get my friend Spaced Angel to post her works over here. Not only is her writing wonderful, but she’s got a ton of stories, too. Besides that, I’m thinking of starting some fic-related topics of discussion in those areas as well…see if I can keep the area highlighted and noticed. Maybe someone in fan art can do the same for that area.

Chris here…

A loooong time ago I seem to recall we actually discussed the concept of having a fan art/fan fic section integrated into the site itself rather than on the forums, but it was just one of those ideas that never got pursued. In many ways this is how I personally like to see this sort of content presented, although on the flip side of that, the more mature content in a lot of fan fics I think kind-of necessitates being positioned in a Forum-type environment, at least with a site like this one. Swings and rounabouts for sure! :slight_smile:

Anyways - for myself personally I’d have no problem with giving a shout-out to the fan art and fan fic areas of these Boards on the front page of this site, although IMO the guy with the final say on that is MannyF. In terms of making such an announcement, I wonder whether, rather than actually making it a shout-out regard the mature fic board, make it a generalised post about fan art and fan fic, to the tune of something like:

Calling all fan fiction writers and fan artists!
Here at TCL we’ve recently been overhauling the fantastic fan art and fan fiction sections of our Forums, which are now more user-friendly and diverse than ever before! In a move masterminded by our newest team member, Purrsia (best known to the online ThunderCats community as the webmistress of www.purrsiathunder.org), we’ve recently restructured both sections to make it easy to find works by your favourite artists and authors, and have also added a new area for any ThunderCat fan fics dealing with more mature themes.

These areas already feature many great works by some of the most talented ThunderCats fans around - check them out here! And, if you’re a fan fic writer or artist with ThunderCats material to share, needless to say we would love you to share your work with us via our forums!

Yeah, I know I jumped the gun a bit by typing all that lot out, but thought otherwise I might tarnish my reputation for long posts and allow you to gain an advantage over me Angie! LOL! :smiley:

Anyways, keep up the great work! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

I wouldnt see why not. More exposure=more interaction by members. Manny is on vacation right now so I dont think he has much access to computers. I would give it a heads up and I dont think Manny would object in this matter. If it was something as far as advertsing or something that would permanently affect the main page then i’d be concerned but for something lke this I think the front page announcement is necessary

Chris, I totally agree - since there was changes to the fan works area of the forum as a whole, definitely give the whole thing a good plug! Your blurb looks great, too. Says it all quite nicely.

I hope Manny doesn’t object. Can’t think of why he would. It’s technically an update to the site, like anything else, and plus it gives the front page a recent entry so visitors are reminded that there’s always something going on at TCL! I see win-win, here.

Yeah, I see what you mean about seperate integrated fic and art sections vs. the forum set-up…it’s cool either way. Both have stengths and minuses but I think two things you can do to make these areas stronger - as they are more content-driven than necessarily discussion driven AND artists and writers like to post where they think they can gain an audience/feedback - is promote it more on other areas of the site and think about linking to it somehow from the main site. You link to the forum as a discussion community, I believe, but since the nature of the art and fic forums is different it might be better to link to them accordingly and seperately off the main site. I know that involves more work, more team input, and so on, but I’m just throwing it out there.

Basically, EOT’s fic and art areas thrive not even because it’s linked so well, but because it has a rep for heavy traffic - writers and artists flock to it, but the reason they do is sorta two fold. EOT, while yes it too has its rules and some private forums for mature stuff, has long been reputed for allowing a range of tastes, if you will. While my archives do that as well, the biggest draw to EOT is people respond to what’s posted there.
Art and fics get attention and reviews from other users, and that is their biggest strength over any other art and fic archive for tcats right now. I think TCL is getting to where we have the traffic and probably enough of that traffic would be interested in looking at art and fic, they just gotta be able to find it and be made visibly aware when activity is going on in those forums. Thus the idea of making announcements at least on the front page when significant changes or activity is going on in those forums.

Granted, I try to do all those things and for some reason, I still can’t generate the responses from users that would be ideal. People just don’t use the review button as much, comparitively, and that will over time hurt a fic and art archive’s popularity. Yeah, ideally people shouldn’t be in the fic and art for the feedback, but then, artists and writers are human and like to see some kind of response to their efforts. I can see both sides of that one :lol: Which is why I’m trying to go around the fic area and read some of the stories that look interesting to me and commenting. Fic isn’t everyone’s thing, so definitely don’t bother if it’s not your thing. And I surely don’t suggest anyone invest time in my story - it’s long, is only going to get longer and is surely not everyone’s cuppa tea. I’m used to the few and far between comment on that and I’m not worried about it. Basically I put it here so the mature forum wouldn’t stay empty when it opened, but otherwise, keeping the rest of the fic area active by posting reviews, conversation threads, and trying to draw in more/new stories will complete our part of making the area seem vibrant and interesting - hopefully word will spread and you might just end up with an archive that’s as active and sought after as EOT’s.

You never know if all this will help til you try all you can to promote an area and just hope people will use it for your efforts.

Yeah, I know I jumped the gun a bit by typing all that lot out, but thought otherwise I might tarnish my reputation for long posts and allow you to gain an advantage over me Angie! LOL!

Yes, we can’t have that :wink: I’m just glad I’m not the only one who goes on for a bit around here!

Chris here…

To which end…is it OK to post up what I wrote? And…(drum roll please!)…would it be OK for me to have a go at posting it on the front page myself? It was explained to me how it works the other day and it actually looks as though I might be able to do it - will the front page be damaged beyond repair if I hit a wrong button? :wink:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Sure Chris go ahead…in any case I’ll take the blame. I’ll put my head on the chopping block for this LOL. If you’re not sure how to post it I can go ahead and do it but its real easy once you enter TCL’s blog section

Chris here…

…Which leads me to my next question, when you type the post in the relevent box, when you publish it will it automatically format the text to the correct font, etc., or does that need doing manually? :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

I beleive the only thing you would need to do is make sure the font size is set to normal rather than small or large

Chris here…

And to my amazement…it worked! :yikes:

http://www.thundercatslair.org/index.html

Take care… :slight_smile:

Whoo-hoo!

Let there be Promos :slight_smile: