You know I would even go as far as posting on the main page when there is a new story. It would be an incentive for new and exisiting artists to be featured on the front page when they post new stories. I mean i dont know if that would be too extreme but when people see new things featured on the front page their instinct is to go to what is featured. I think that the front page’s power of advertising should be used to its full potential.
Given the content-like nature of the art and fic forums, that could be a thought. I try to do this when I do my regular updates, too, and it does seem to help some - as in I’ll note any new or recent activity in the art or fic areas of the site right with my current updates. If promotes those areas again, and like you said, hopefully gives other artists or writers popping by for the first time to go ahead and join/post their work, too.
I say, go for it.
However, if it ends up getting busy in those forums, you may want to consider doing a once-a-week (or whatever time frame seems good) update for the front page on that, in between regular site updates. If I had your nifty blog feed, that’s probably what I’d do but since I do the updates on my site by hand with html, I just wait til I do another round to mention those.
Big Thumbs up Chris!
Although it might be wise to direct any folks to the general rules thread, so they will know how to sign up to view the mature forums 
To be honest I think that’s overkill and a bit on the extreme side. I think the sites front page should be reserved for news stories only and general site changes. It will get too cluttered otherwise.
I dont mean to post it on a weekly basis but I would say once a month post something about new stories that have been added. I dont think one post a month in the front page would be overkill, on the other hand it would encourage people to visit the forums. Eventually items cycle out of the main page and so it wont really clutter it up.
But what about other contributors to the forums? Would it be fair if we didn’t announce new art work on the art forums and new collection pics on the toy forum?
It’s like my posts aren’t even read :lol:
I thought we were talking of including art, too. Neil, fan contributions on the level of art and fic are more like content than a typical message board post. Hours of work and effort often go into them, unlike a typical post - even if it does include a pic upload - takes just a few minutes to produce (well, mine and Chris’s marathon posts excluded, but I’ll let that slide 
) . Just because you’ve chosen at TCL to display them in a forum doesn’t change the fact that it’s fan added content. I mean, if the site were done differently and you had integrated fic and art software or areas on the main site, would you not promo it and remark occassionally on updates there? Plus, since right now it is hard for fans who are into that stuff - fic and art - to even realize you host it, an extra blurb here or there can’t hurt as it’s not people’s normal inclination to look to a forum for those things. Again, nothing against the set-up, but when using it it’s usually wise to hilight it somehow off the main site. For example, EOT uses its forums for everything, fic and art included. But the portal page you come in at has a column of recent posts, so everytime someone updates a story it gets bumped for added exposure and newbies are aware that ‘hey, you can post fic here too’.
As I said in a prior post, no need to update the front page for every single addition as it happens, though I don’t see the harm in either noting changes and updates to those parts with the regular updates, or at some determined regular interval. The second choice is also advantageous to TCL to me because, say you’ve got a month where other site updates are slow in coming, it gives you something to put on the front page that’s legitimate and considered content while letting visitors know there’s still life in the site.
I guess what I’m saying is, as it is now, if I came to the site looking to either view or post fan works, I would have a hard time finding it and when I did it’d be on accident…I’d have to go to the forum first, and if I were doing that, it’d be because I was seeking out a traditional forum. However, if forums were not something that interested me, I would assume TCL doesn’t host fanworks at all, missing my opportunity to stumble upon it. Then, people who have posted their hard work would miss out on potential comments/views and TCL would miss out on potential talent to be shared if I’d have had something to contribute.
I guess it depends on how much you want to encourage those areas to grow, but tucking it away at the bottom of the forums and leaving it alone isn’t going to encourage a whole lot. Yes, there’s some activity now but it could be better. If not a front page plug now and then, at least link it up via the main site somehow…at the very least note on the link to the forum that fan art and fics are there, too. Though I think that’s the least effective route, but it’d be better than nothing. Least effective because again, people coming to the site who are into the fan works aren’t going to expect to necessarily find it under the community tab. Plus, people would actually have to read the forum description and you may laugh at that, but one thing I’ve learned in my tenure in fandom and having a site is people do not read much. I’ve got a pile of stupid, redundant emails to prove it and a nagging feeling I wasted a good few hours of my life typing up a user-friendly faq nobody apparently reads (nah, I’m not bitter!). You pretty much have to shove something up front and in people’s face Captain Obvious style if it’s important enough.
So that’s the thing. How important is the area to TCL? Is it just dabbling in it in the ‘oh yeah, we’ll accept this stuff too if you happen to stumble upon the area’ kind of thing, or does it want to grow an archive of decent size and repute? I’m cool with it either way, I just need to know the goals here so I can stop wasting everyone’s time throwing out useless suggestions. I was just under the impression with adding mods to the area, expanding, and coming up with in-depth rules that this was something TCL was going to persue more aggressively and therefore treat it like it would any other hard-won effort that adds content and a new dimension to the site.
People work just as hard on those things as any of you do on the various main areas of the site, and as such would be more willing to contribute if they figure a decent effort is made, giving opportunity for the works to be noticed and appreciated. I just can’t see any of you that motivated or happy if work you’d done wasn’t directly linked anywhere and doesn’t get mentioned or promoted much. After a while, many would probably take their skills elsewhere.
The rest of the forum, is more like a traditional forum, and as such no I wouldn’t ever suggest updating the main page everytime a thread or other specific section is active. That’d be silly. Plus, the general community has a direct link off the main site, so visitors sure do know how to find their traditional forum if that’s what they’re after. Everything outside the fic and art I consider traditional or typical forum material, imo.
I mention my forum in the main updates if some thread is particularly of general fan interest there (discussions concerning a new movie or cartoon, etc), and maybe you have too for yours, but otherwise the forum in general is easy to find and people know what to expect.
Eh, hopefully in this rambling a point somewhere became clear. I don’t mind if folks disagree with it, but rather, I get flustered if I feel like I haven’t been understood in the first place. Hopefully that nails it.
Folks also spend a lot time getting their collection together, buying and setting it up in display cabinets and taking the best pictures they can.
But that’s not the issue really.
I’ll be blunt and say I’m not 100% happy with the concept of the Mature Fan-Fic forum as I’d prefer to keep the site and forum family friendly. I just don’t think over advertising the ‘mature’ areas is a good idea. They are there just for those few that want to post there.
I always feel that there is a place and a time for mature/adult content and a site based around a kids cartoon ain’t it.
However I guess standard art/fic could be advertised on the front page, but it’s not really site stuff in my opinion as the stories and art belong to the author/artist
I’d just sooner keep the front page reserved for news and site updates. I reckon Manny would feel the same to be honest. Although you will have to see what he says when he gets back. As for reading posts I have to admit I don’t have heaps of time to read everything and usually have to skim long posts, so if folks have a something they feel strongly about, it’s best to try to keep it brief and to the point. I don’t want to upset anyone, it’s just that I honestly don’t have a lot of time at the minute.
I didn’t get around to checking out the forums until around 4am this morning! :yikes:
True, but then again I bet most of them aren’t doing it just to snap a pic and put it on the internet. They’re doing so regardless. Just like we might share with each other pics of our homes or families as a social function on a forum, which we obviously have spent a lot of time in, money invested, and have pride in, but I wouldn’t consider that site content per se either. It’s again your typical message forum banter and needs no more hilighting than a forum for people to easily know where to go to share such things.
Fic and art, most fans put the time in with a plan from the get-go to share it online with other fans. However, it’s generally not expected to be found amid a typical forum, hence the idea of giving it more notice. Though I would say the same if it were anywhere else on the site, too.
To me that’s the difference.
I’ll be blunt and say I’m not 100% happy with the concept of the Mature Fan-Fic forum as I’d prefer to keep the site and forum family friendly. I just don’t think over advertising the ‘mature’ areas is a good idea. They are there just for those few that want to post there.
I always feel that there is a place and a time for mature/adult content and a site based around a kids cartoon ain’t it.
Fair enough, in that I agree to an extent in that part of the appeal of TCL to some may in fact be that it’s unlike the other sites of the moment - in that you can be sure you’re not going to run into anything offensive which may be important if a new movie or series brings a lot of younger folks back into the fandom. And of course, there are plenty of adult fans that don’t want to deal with cursing or nudie fan art, either.
As it stands, most of the online fandom is adult, however, and the fanworks they produce wouldn’t be able to be posted in the regular forums for obvious reasons. The mature forum may boost the activity in this regard here, but not if nobody can find it. But then that goes back to whether or not you want fic and art to be a viable part of the site content/dynamic or just a P.S. on the forums.
However, with things like the great void here and the mature forum being likewise protected, I suppose I’m getting mixed signals. Though I can see the difference as far as you’re not pushing the void, but then, it’s not content-driven anyway. I guess I thought with the expansion into the mature area, assigning mods, and so forth TCL was getting serious about fanworks and wanted to promote it more as a whole.
At any rate, if the fic area is just a P.S., that’s fine I’m basically looking for clarification either way by the team. If the majority feel as you Neil, then I’ll know to focus my energies elsewhere and not try so hard to bring awareness/activity to the area, in favor of just letting it trickle through naturally.
No skin off my nose, really, and there are plenty of other places fans that produce mature work can post and get noticed online.
However I guess standard art/fic could be advertised on the front page, but it’s not really site stuff in my opinion as the stories and art belong to the author/artist
That would be better than nothing, and I would advocate that anyway even if there was no mature area. It’s about time, in my opinion.
Although I disagree that stories and art are not viable content as you seem to be saying. From my experience, fans love the chance to express themselves, and one can only look at the standard stuff on a 20 year old show so many times before it loses its luster. I mean, it’s not like the canon material is popping with new things to look at or talk about that often - fan works help keep interest alive, to an extent.
Fans like to interact, and fan works is a great way to keep a site interesting to many fans. I would think this is why many fan sites in many fandoms offer such areas - rules and allowances varying of course - in the first place.
No, not everyone is into fan art and fan fic, but I can tell you a startling chunk of this fandom is. How you want to utilize that is up to you. Whatever is decided by the majority I will happily go with. Just makin’ my case in the meantime.
I’d just sooner keep the front page reserved for news and site updates. I reckon Manny would feel the same to be honest. Although you will have to see what he says when he gets back.
I suppose that’s where our opinions differ the most - what we see as content vs. typical forum fodder. Fan fic and fan art contributions ARE site updates, in my mind. I appreciate knowing where you’re coming from, though.
As for reading posts I have to admit I don’t have heaps of time to read everything and usually have to skim long posts, so if folks have a something they feel strongly about, it’s best to try to keep it brief and to the point. I don’t want to upset anyone, it’s just that I honestly don’t have a lot of time at the minute.
I didn’t get around to checking out the forums until around 4am this morning! :yikes:
Actually, I rethought my response to this. I’m replacing it with ‘no comment’ for the sake of team harmony
Here’s my .02 cents on thsi. I am all up for advertisng and maximizing the resources we have. I would love for these forums to be so busy that we wouldnt know what to do, my vision would be the site and the forums be as busy as the he-man.org forums are. I must admit that I am not a fic person myself, simply because I really cant get into books or reading due to some cognitive issues. Thats neither here nor there but by looking at the front page the last update that we did of any sort was on June 23 for the podcast and before Chris posted about the fan-fic area it has been nearly a month since any update.
Bottomline is that even if it is so much as advertising the fan-fic area or any other area of the forum it is giving more exposure to the forums. I want to say that unless people look in google for thundercats forums or via one of our signatures then bottom line it will be very hard to find the forums. Yes there is a link on top og the main site but seriously how many people go to it. Sometimes you have to make things more visible in order for people to visit the forums. The forums is just as important as the main site is.
Fan Fic and Fan Art is something that people take time and effort to do it. It’s not too hard to take pics of your collection and post it. Look at fic almost like a book. Writing fic and drawing is ART, taking pictures of your collection is NOT. I think so far the idea of plugging the fan-fic section and the art section could be one of the turnarounds for the site and the forums.
We want to do giveaways and reward people for their hard work. Its always my motto to give credit where it is due. Here is my suggestion for a giveaway…We can hold sort of a short fic contest and a Fan Art contest. That will encourage people to come to the forums and contribute. There is as it stands right now $150 in TCL’s PayPal account. Part will be used for hosting purposes and part for giveaways.
Suggestions on giveaways is welcomed. Kyle can head the art contest while Angie can head the fan-fic contest. It could be a member decision via poll as to who wins or it could be a decision made by the respective mods of each section. Thoughts? Ideas? Feel free to post here or make a new thread for this
Chris here…
First of all can I say, Neil my friend, if you’re struggling to wade through the plethora of long posts, seeing me start one here is bound to make you feel a lot worse! LOL! 
(Only joking my friend!)
In terms of the mature fan fic issue - to be honest, I see the mature fic forums as an extension of the concept of the Great Void board that we have here, i.e. that it’s something we have that is available, but password protected. For me the password protection is the absolute key - unlike some sites (and I’m not thinking of anywhere in particular), these aren’t mature fan fics that you can just casually surf into, you have to actually go to the aggravation of requesting access. Now, whilst kids are more and more computer and e-mail savvy than ever before, I nonetheless don’t think that there’s much risk of swarms of really young (pre-adolescent) kids e-mailing to ask to read these, partly because myself I just can’t see it happening but also because, let’s face it, ThunderCats isn’t a hot property right now. I doubt if you asked most 8 - 10 year olds what ThunderCats was that they would have heard of it. Now, I know there’s the issue of a possible new cartoon/movie, and I’ll come back to that in a second!
Mature fan fics aren’t normally my bag, not because I’m offended by them in any way but because, if I’m honest, I find a lot of writers tend to put adult situations and references into them not to further the story but just to deliberately try and make them “adult” - heck, Ford Lytle Gilmore actually did this with the comic series ThunderCats: The Return, which was full of sexual under- and overtones, some of them not especially subtle! All of which is not really my cup of tea. However, one of the things about message boards is that they are kind-of a “poster’s market” - i.e., if a fan community is, as a rule, into more mature fan fics, then someone will create a message board that houses that, and that board will get traffic, whereas another board won’t.
Now, one thing I am going to say is that if we were talking about making these more mature fics part of the actual main site itself (as opposed to the forums), with no password protection and such, then I would be vehemently opposed to that. I think that any and all content that is posted to the main TCL site (outside of the forums) should be content that is tasteful and viewable by all ages - occasionally references to more adult stuff is inevitable (such as when writing up the DC/Wildstorm comics), but always IMO it should be done tastefully. I think that what we’ve done here with the fan fics by creating a protected area where more mature fics can be posted is very much a “middle ground” solution and one I personally endorse - because, it’s not an area that someone can casually surf into, yet it does still serve to cater for that market in a way that is responsible and tasteful.
In terms of the issue of plugging new fan fics/fan art on the front page - with this one, I kind-of take a middle view. Whilst I definitely get everything that Angie’s saying, the biggest issue I have with promoting specific fan fics/fan art that features in the forums on the front page of our site in the same way as we would promote a site update is that we are, by doing that, actually saying “TCL endorses this”. Now, that begs the question “What’s wrong with that?”, and there actually doesn’t have to be anything wrong with that at all - but, one of the things that I personally would like to see with our fan creations boards is that, provided they don’t break forum rules, IMO anyone should be able to host their creations here, regardless of quality. Yes, if a fan fic is written in text message shorthand then that’s another matter, but nonetheless in the main I don’t feel that we should try and impose our own views of quality (or not) onto a public fan creations area like we have. With that in mind however, let’s face it, not every fic that gets posted is going to be of the same standard as stuff that we would approve for inclusion in the site proper - so, from that perspective, I think it would be tricky to plug specific fics and specific artworks on the front page of the site… 
However - what I would probably be inclined to do is, in the event of a lull between updates (say, if there’s an interim month where the front page is essentially dead), do a post that says “Just to let you know that we’re working on some more content for our next update, which we’re hopeful everyone will really enjoy! In the meanwhile, don’t forget that you can check out our forums where you guys can take part and discuss all things ThunderCats! We are particularly proud of our fan creations forums, which feature many fantastic fan fics and examples of fine fan art, and so if you have a ThunderCats story you want to tell, or artwork you want to share, TCL would love to hear from you!” For me, that’s kind-of a middle ground, and the way I personally would play it.
One final point here is the issue of the mature fic forum with a view to a forthcoming ThunderCats cartoon/movie, etc. - I do think that if that happens, or is set to happen, then certain things may need re-evaluating, such as the content/layout of the forums. However, I would also say that, whilst I think it’s important to take a view on the future of the site from that perspective (and I think our style and layout puts us in an enviable position if a TCats relaunch did happen), to be honest if you take that to its logical conclusion I think when/if a movie or new toon happens the whole, entire site could well need re-jigging anyway - because, just as one example, potentially what is currently our Cartoon Section could end up becoming our “Classic Cartoon Section”! He-Man.Org is a site I’d point to as an example of this - when the 200X MOTU revival launched, that site was completely redesigned to capitalise on that, and if a new TCats movie or toon happens, we may have to do the same. To which end, the Boards could well need to be included as part of that…
One final, final comment - the one thing I personally am not so comfortable with is the concept of a Mature ThunderCats Fan Art Forum, just because I think that visual stuff is a lot more “immediate” than a more mature fan fic, and I think could be harder to do tastefully. If someone’s reading a fic, when it gets to a steamy part, if they’re turned off by what they’re reading they can just stop, whereas with an image it’s either there or it’s not. So, that would be where I personally would have a slight problem.
Take care…
Chris, I’d like to adrss your post but I’ll just address some key points. We could advertise the fan-fic and fan art area but in a genreal sense. Say something like please check out our new forums for some new fan art and fan-fic from members such and such. Its not giving away entire titles of fan fic but it lets people know there is new content. I would like to do these giveaways for 3 different areas. One would be for the art section another for the fic section and another for the general forum so that way people dont feel left out. I am in the progress of sending Larry Kenney an email to request a signed picture by him to have as a giveaway.
Chris, I agree that you don’t need to promote specific artists, authors or fics, but rather just at least make note of the area when there’s significant activity in it to remind people that yes, we host fic here too. It’s something you could do for the forum, in general I guess, if there’s a particularly juicy discussion going on.
Thing about Thundercats fandom is there’s a lot of girls in it. Girls, in general, are social critters and a lot of us draw or fic as well. Over here, you have a bit of a boys club going which isn’t bad - obviously there are a fair amount of male fans, and it seems a lot of male interest lies more with toys, merchandise, and other particulars of the show. Nothing wrong with that either. It’s a void the fandom needed filled quite honestly.
However, not to bring up a sore subject again, but I was talking to someone in an effort to get them to give the forum and fic/art boards over here a chance and basically, they confided they’re not comfortable here. This is just one person, mind you, but it reminds me of the sore topic of TCL trying to reach out more and seem more fan-friendly somehow. That would involve tapping into that female fanbase, as well. There’s some gals here, but not that many.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I think if you really want to attract a fandom you should know the fandom and frankly, I don’t think many of you go beyond the tcl url much. It shows in more ways than one. I try to help you understand the fandom mindset/dynamic and such from time to time, being I’ve been in it and entrenched in it socially for a long time, but I have a feeling I’m just getting on your nerves - correct me if I’m wrong. If I’m right, I’ll happily dispense with my ill advice when the topic of getting more visitors/activity on the site is brought up. I’m really cool with either one, just let me know. My way may very well not be the only way.
At any rate, I see the point about the revival and mentioned it a bit myself. However, one cannot be sure a revival will be geared toward kids but as Chris said we’ll likely cross that bridge when it is built. Though, I hope it won’t involve removing the mature area in the future. That will alienate quite a few people, especially if you end up attracting people who have only posted/built a readership on this site.
Oh and I thought we no longer used a password for the mature area? rather, it was changed so that one had to ask permission to have their account cleared to view. Could someone clarify that?
Thanks.
Angie as far as the password area is concern you are right. Passwords are no longer and I dont think will ever be used. The only way someone will be able to access the more mature areas is if an admin edits the user’s access. Basically either Manny or me have to be inofrmed if someone needs access to a certain area and i go under the admin controls and edit the permissions so that the member can view the area. Passwords can be spread around but the way it is set up now each member has to contact the corresponding mod to get access and then the mod contacts either of the admins.
Oh I’m not really to keen on having an adult art area. If people want to see adult art they can go soemwhere else. Now fic is a different story
ok, thanks. That’s what I thought you’d said but I was getting confused by other posts. Either way, I contact you to grant the access anyway, so I guess it doesn’t matter to me personally, but I do like to look like I know what I’m talking about when I get PMed by users. So thanks again
Chris here…
Yeah, that’s basically what I was talking about in my post. I completely agree with you!
Well, I can’t speak for the rest of the team (although nobody has said anything to me), but you certainly don’t get on my nerves or anything of the like talking about the fandom, and ways you think TCL could reach out to said fandom, I genuinely enjoy hearing the insights and experience you have, I think it’s something valueable that we as a team should utilise whenever possible. We’re never going to agree on everything, that’s a given with any group of folks working together, but I think you speak a lot of wisdom, sound common sense, and backed up with knowledge, experience, solid reasoning and passion for your subject. All of which makes me sound like a total suck-up, LOL! But, seriously, as I’ve stated to you before, I think your knowledge and insight is of immense value and I for one welcome it wholeheartedly!
Yeah, fair comment - to be honest, I can’t forsee it being an issue given that, for someone to view it, they would have to go to the hassle of registering to post on the boards (bearing in mind that most folks who would surf in here in the event of a TCats revival would just surf into the site rather than be bothered to sign up to the Boards - e.g., I’ve recently been reading up a lot about Transformers, but I’m not registered on any Transformers message boards because my interest is too casual), and then contacting you to gain access to that forum. If someone is that desperate to read mature fic when they shouldn’t be (i.e., if they’re underage), IMO they’ll actually look for it somewhere else rather than go to the hassle of trying to access it here!
In short, I’m happy with the situation, and completely behind what you’re doing, Angie!
Yeah, that was my error not keeping up-to-date with things - whoops! Apologies for any confusion! :oops:
Take care…
Thanks, Chris. I was actually quite worried about my post today and somewhat regretted posting it. At least I didn’t manage to tick everyone off LOL
Indeed, we don’t have to all always agree and surely we’re often not going to, but I like to discuss things so that I’m clear on where everyone’s coming from and feel that they’ve at least thought of how different things tie in to other thoughts and ideas brought up before. Goodness knows I need reminding myself sometimes.
As a side note, Spaced Angel said she was going to pop by and post some of her work in the mature area too, when she gets a moment. If so, that’ll be a boost to the section for sure Her work is really top notch, and it’s not really mature in the gratuitous sense Chris had mentioned in general before (I actually tend to agree for the most part), but rather, it’s just, eh, less kiddie oriented like the toon. The canon is great source material, but she gives the characters depth and feeling that the show never did, as things aren’t always so black and white. Which is actually the kind of fic I hope the mature forum continues to attract.