I just don't see it...

[system]

@srebak

There you go again, Gold Lion, you’re trying to make it so that Tygra has respectable qualities. But i personally just can’t find anything about Tygra that makes me respect him. I think he’s selfish, i think he’s a braggart, i think he’s a bully, and i definitely do not think that he deserves to be the leader of anything.

And what cheeses me off the most is that all the things that someone who deserves to be a leader often has or goes through (i.e. Having a parent who risked everything to save them, adoptive parents who loved them dearly, a happy childhood that included meeting the person who would one day be their spouse) are given to Tygra instead of Lion-O. How is that supposed to work?

We have just as much canon to believe Tygra had it rough growing up too.
He spent his whole life feeling alone because he was the only tiger, he lost a mother he was obviously very attached to and then he was passed over for a title not because he wasn’t qualified, but because he wasn’t a blood relation. Really, all of the characters have had it rough.(It seems to be a theme among all of the cast. Lion-O, Tygra, Cheetara and the twins all had it rough growing up).
Lion-O: Picked on because he didn’t match up with what his kingdom wanted him to be
Tygra: already discussed
Cheetara: Orphan with nowhere to go.
Twins: Ran away from home because they felt like a burden on their mother.

You could make a case that Lion-O has had it better than some of the characters on this show. Yeah he argued a lot with his big brother, and his father pushed for him to be someone he’s not, but at least he had food in his belly and a roof over his head. He also had a big brother who would take on a mob for him, and a father who would stand up for him when others tried to put him down.

Sure, Lion-O’s beliefs made him a target for mocking and ridicule, but a lot of his problem was of his own making. When you go around shirking your responsibilities ( especially ones that are meant to help prepare you to rule an entire civilization ) it should make you a target for criticism.

Those things don’t make or break a ruler. Those are just a bunch of cliches. Besides, Claudus would risk everything for Lion-O, and those words are straight out of jr.'s mouth ep 3;) Same would probably go for the Queen.

[balgus82]

@srebak

There you go again, Gold Lion, you’re trying to make it so that Tygra has respectable qualities. But i personally just can’t find anything about Tygra that makes me respect him. I think he’s selfish, i think he’s a braggart, i think he’s a bully, and i definitely do not think that he deserves to be the leader of anything.

And what cheeses me off the most is that all the things that someone who deserves to be a leader often has or goes through (i.e. Having a parent who risked everything to save them, adoptive parents who loved them dearly, a happy childhood that included meeting the person who would one day be their spouse) are given to Tygra instead of Lion-O. How is that supposed to work?

He basically wrote a whole page praising Lion-O and you latch on to a slight comment on how Tygra had the love of the people (which was a fact in the show)? Really dude?

[hammy0924]

These threads almost seem like their sole purpose is to generate arguments more than actually doing something. When one died down in popularity, another is made. Looking for people’s opinions on a topic and then bashing them for saying one true fact about the character you hate is so hypocritical and self-biased.

And I have to say it again, but it’s a TV show. It isn’t healthy to hate someone from a show so much that even the slight suggestion that they might be good sets you off. From a guy who is constantly guilty of over-analyzing to another, just watch the show for the entertainment. And also, a lot of people have been pushed around and treated like crap. This is why they made Lion-O the way he was, because it makes him relatable. I’m not saying whether that strategy ultimately worked or not but it’s fairly easy to deduce that they were trying to make you have sympathy for him. Is it so hard to just accept that?

[srebak]

1. Like i said before, i make these threads because i have nowhere else to vent about them (do you know how hard it is to find someone who watches all the same things i do?).

2. Getting back to subject itself;

I just don’t see how everyone can be okay with the way Lion-O was treated:

Tygra insulted Lion-O during that game scene in the pilot, he insulted him the next day (he even made a “grow up” comment) and has endlessly and unsympathetically made Lion-O’s job much harder by second guessing him from that episode forth. You can’t even say that he was trying to make Lion-O a better leader, he was just saying that Lion-O was unfit to lead. Lion-O was already dealing with stuff that would’ve made a lesser man drop to the ground and cry and Tygra didn’t seem to care enough to at least try to give his little brother a break. I honestly think that that “I hope i’m nothing like you” comment from the pilot was well deserved. However, when all was said and done, Tygra got off too easy in “Trials of Lion-O part 2”. I just don’t think that his “…Suddenly i’m in charge and we end up in here” comment was enough, he needed more comeuppance than that, and to make matters worse, they actually followed this up by giving him an episode where we’re expected to feel sorry for him.

Claudus was almost just as bad, you guys keep saying that he and Lion-O were close at one point, but to me, it really feels like Lion-O had no relationship with Claudus at all, and that just makes it hard for me to see any reason why Lion-O would feel sad for the death of a father who he never had any connection to. We can’t even say that Lion-O had more of a father/son relationship with Jaga this time, because if Jaga was mentoring Lion-O exclusively, the boy wouldn’t have had such a negative reputation with the public.

I also just can’t see a reason why Panthro would need to be so mean to Lion-O when they first met, that sort of implies that Panthro was no better the crowd of Thunderians who Lion-O fended off in the pilot. Would it have been so bad to make it so that Panthro, like Cheetara at the time, wasn’t as unreasonably judgmental about the young Lion as the rest? And before you bring up what happened outside the Thundrillium mine, may i remind you that Lion-O only did that because he felt Panthro was disrespecting him for no real reason and he wanted to prove that he was someone to be respected.

As for Pumyra, where do i begin with her? You all saw her yelling at him, calling him her enemy and her blaming him for everything that’s happened to her and you see it as completely understandable and justified. But i take a look at it and all I see is her unjustly blaming Lion-O for something that wasn’t his fault. For one thing, Lion-O was not the king when Thundera fell, in fact, he wasn’t even crowned King until after the damage was done. Also, it was made pretty clear that Lion-O’s setting the Lizards free had nothing to do with the attack the next day, Grune and Mumm-Ra had that attack planned from the beginning, if anything, it was Lion-O’s mercy to the Lizards that kept Mumm-Ra from having total victory. Think about it, if Lion-O hadn’t saved those Lizards, he and Tygra probably never would have gotten out of that jail cell. And honestly, what good would killing Lion-O in the Pit have done? All Pumyra would have accomplished by doing that was getting rid of the only person who could harness the stones and use Sight beyond sight, all she’d have done is secure Mumm-Ra’s victory, did she really think that she was going to be considered a hero after that? If anything, as i’ve said before, that would have just made her an outcast and an enemy to the other Cats.

Also, that comment she made at Mount Plundarr was completely uncalled for, i still think that Lion-O had no earthly reason to help any of the Cat slaves, they treated him like dirt for the longest time, why should he have wasted his time helping any of them? Yet Pumyra still pulls out that whole “it’s the least you can do” attitude and makes it sound like Lion-O owed his people everything. King or not, I still think Lion-O’s wanting to help the Cats should have been seen as more of a “That’s just the way i am” kind of good deed rather than an “It’s the least i can do” kind of thing.

[Daremonger]

Srebak, I believe that you’re entitled to your opinion like everyone else has their own.

[19Tabularasa94]

I’m quoting a lot of people, their quotes are theirs, not mine, I’m just too lazy to name people.

[[[Trust me, not everyone reacted nor looked at things the way you describe. Many voices sounded off (and still do) in criticism concerning how the characters were portrayed and the direction the series was headed from the very beginning. The problem came in that any time anyone said something critical about the series here, on facebook, or just about anywhere else, they were shouted down and yelled at, called trolls and haters, and generally bullied by those who felt the series was just the cat’s meow. Many fans left because of this treatment and many more became mutes]]]

I’m one such fan who left. I had no choice, but it hurt and, like hammy said, looking back on things, it really is just a TV show. But it did give us quite a load to debate and think about. And I love deep and meaningful conversations, seriously.

[[[I don’t believe too many fans were happy with the way Lion-O kept getting the short end of the straw for 26 episodes and given that the Crew really showed no signs of ending that trend, I really doubt we would have seen much growth in the Lion-O department had the series continued. If anything, the “direction that would have blown minds” hinted at the comi-con panels would have probably involved Lion-O handing over the title of King and the Sword of Omens to Tygra who would have beaten Mumm-Ra and the Ancient Spirits of Evil in one strike then gone on to marry Cheetara, Pumyra, and WilyKit while Lion-O went to live in the mountains as a hermit.]]]

Seconded. Lion-O was Charlie Brown all the way, but he really struck a chord in me, cos in my eyes, he represented some people in the world, who’d had a lot to deal with and are trying to aim upwards best as possible. I’m talking about me btw. But overall, character developement was off-the-chart poor. For example, I took Cheetara’s dropping her staff to symbolize that she’d given up her clericship to get her love back. That shows how dumb falling in love makes us.

[[[Something interesting many noticed (myself included) was that in New Alliances, Cheetara was willing to put everything the Cats were working towards in jeopardy because of Tygra yet Journey to the Tower of Omens showed all that Tygra was not willing to do the same for Cheetara - supposedly the Cat he loved since cubhood. Cheetara is getting fried by Mumm-Ra’s Sith Lightening and which Cat tries to help her? Not Tygra but Lion-O. And which Cat is it that pulls Lion-O away when he tries to rush to Cheetara’s aid? It is Tygra who tells Lion-O that the Book is all that matters. Even at the top of the Tower, it is Lion-O and not Tygra who takes the Sith lightning attacks from Mumm-Ra to protect Cheetara.]]]

Thank you! Finally! A valid point! Thank you!

[[[Am I the only one, or does anyone else think that it’s pathetic that this is pretty much all we have left to talk about on the forum regarding the NS?]]]

I’m on the fence, because it seemed like the crew was trying to make this so-called reboot look like a prototype to make us all implode with theories. This is the worst case of CLAMP Syndrome (Yeah, I made that up) I’ve seen so far.

[[[the confusing part for me in this series is their memory loss when dealing with their powers in some situations. in that scenario, Cheetara who’s pretty much the equivalent of DC comics the Flash for the thundercats universe forgot to at least try to use her speed powers to save Tygra. i’m pretty sure she’s fast enough to get to Tygra before kaynar did any damage. instead she takes her sweet time to throw down her weapon and surrenders. i honestly blame her for the death of lion-o.]]]

Blame the writers, saith Mark M. Except Tab Murphy, he’s a star.

[[[He basically wrote a whole page praising Lion-O and you latch on to a slight comment on how Tygra had the love of the people (which was a fact in the show)? Really dude?]]]

Balgus is right on this one, srebak. Gold Lion described both Tygra and Lion-O in one blow. He’s on neutral ground.

[[[Srebak, I believe that you’re entitled to your opinion like everyone else has their own.]]]

Exactly. Each to his own.

And lastly, listen srebak. I understand that this show’s characters, especially Lion-O, really seem to click within you. Whether it’s because you relate to one or not, I’ll never know. But I strongly advise you this: If you really want to get this out of your system, you better to finish your Season Two story, imperfections and all, no pressure. Daremonger and I and other readers are always on hand to read it. Also, this show gave me a hard time as a successful shipper. But I managed to give up on it and do what I must. I also recommend that you better focus on things that NEED focusing, like studies or a job or just being with friends. We all need a release from reality every now and then, but I think ThunderCats 2011 really did it for you. I sure know it did for me. No offense

Lots of us are (online) buddies here, in spite of all the arguments…Right, guys?! And I’m glad you’re a loyal fan of TC2011 and other shows. I don’t want to offend you btw.

In other news, yes, I’m back. I had hit a slump so I stayed away for a while. Plus, as a TC2011 fan, I’ve always felt really useless here, cos I was mostly a “Yes-Woman” kind of person.