From my point of view the fact is not fortuitous or too complex. I think that the brothers would end up one against the other.
Lion-O would not be couple of Cheetara nor Pumyra, he doesn’t trust women, will be the same case as with technology a single episode to fix the problem.
I think Pumyra would return to his eternal rest and that would be an important point in his life and his later relationship with Cheetara as King and cleric.
Cheetara chose Tygra probably to avoid conflicts between Lion-O and Tygra, at the same time as she guided him to the right path, but when he discovers the truth, start the break between the brothers. (We assume she loves Tygra and tells the truth about that she will always remain as a cleric).
Bengali may belong to another tribe of tigers and that can be the main conflict in the second part, serve to Thundera and its King or become leader of his own people… Cheetara would not follow him in the same way that she did not follow her King.
The scene of the Bell is important because everything is a competition, Lion-O will learn that it is not important to defeating his brother, as his own fear of losing to himself.
It’s not that Tygra be better than Lion-O, his problem is that he has a feeling of always losing and lack of self-control, what frustrates his chances of winning.
They would defeat Mumm-Ra in the first thirteen episodes, and the second part would be years later with Lion-O considering its relationship with a character like Willa, Nayda, Wily Kit or an OC.
Han Solo and Leia converted into Luke’s sister. Luke with… Mara Jade
At the bottom of this final to me is disheartening, we already had a Tygra-Cheetara in comics and that relationship will be canon or Cheetara will a cleric serving the King, sacrificing his true love.
I like Pumyra, I like Cheetara, but not a third character as forced consolation prize.
I think that most of us had not seen what we wanted to see in the original series and that’s a great failure, because the children connected with the secondary character and all the traumatic events that happen to the main character will be useless if the bad behavior receives all with an apology and good behavior is just a wall of duty and obligations.
Another mistake of this series is to introduce characters too late. If Willa is the final couple of Lion-O and appeared in the last episodes as happened with Pumyra (In my opinion, Pumyra should appear in the pilot episode to justify the twist), Willa would then be Mara Jade, because she appears years later when nobody cares a damn.
Has anyone considered that they were harder on Lion-O than they were on Tygra because he’s the leader? He had more responsibility and more to live up to.
I do think they were planning for a long game though. They had Tygra up as “perfect” in order to give Lion-O someone to surpass. But yeah I was just as annoyed as everyone else when Lion-O forgot a previously learned lesson.
Of course, we should not forget the Trials of Lion-O. All followed Tygra without complaining, it was not difficult to follow him on a suicide mission, while Cheetara abandoned Lion-O to do the same, the contrast should be very difficult.
This. Not to mention he’s young, he abruptly became the new king after the previous one died due to a decision he made because Lion-O asked him to, and he was already known as being an oddball (in the public’s eyes).
That wasn’t a suicide mission. A suicide mission is one where you go through with it even knowing you’re going to die. They were trying to get the sword back from Mumm-Ra, and were trying to use stealth to do it. They weren’t planning or expecting to die doing it because then Mumm-Ra would’ve just gotten the sword back from their corpses. And I might add, they did question Tygra’s orders. Mostly Panthro. And after they were captured They didn’t really have a chance to complain, cause Tygra readily took the blame and pretty much admitted that Lion-O was a better leader.
On the other hand when Cheetara refused Lion-O’s order he was acting rashly, after rushing into danger alone, and was willing to sacrifice Tygra. He was letting his emotions get the best of him, and ordered something I don’t believe he would have if he were more calm. Frankly if she hadn’t done what she did, Tygra would’ve died right there.
Balgus, is the same case, a suicide attack, they are captured, but Mumm-Ra “mysteriously” let them live.
A direct attack in both cases, a reckless act of both. The first by continuing fighting, the second by getting into a fight that they should avoid.
All follow Tygra, Cheetara doesn’t follow Lion-O. She disobeys to Lion-O for his love to Tygra or because she is disappointed of Lion-O? We don’t know. If Tygra wasn’t the person in danger, could its decision be different?
Both have their turn as leaders, they only criticize Lion-O.
I know that this might be intentional, but it is very difficult to give a fair contrast for the Viewer
Justify it with a question of learning or inexperience has no logic. My idea is that the writers want to make us notice that Lion-O is not reliable and Tygra seems reliable but sometimes, appearances can be deceiving.
On the other hand, the purpose of Cheetara is uncertain, because everything is seen from the perspective of Lion-O.
Anyway, talking about Cheetara decisions is not important, because its role with Lion-O would be marginal, Lion-O would show his resentment and mistrust, until he understands more about loyalty and she understands his role as a cleric or tell the truth that hides its role, if there is one.
The simplest would be to say that she made a mistake, she bragged about loyalty without backing her own words with actions.:rolleyes: In addition, Lion-O not asked them to follow him.
Actually, based on the definition of the phrase suicide mission - “a task which is so dangerous for the people involved that they are not expected to survive. The risks involved with suicide missions are not always apparent to those participating in them or to those who plan them. However, for an action to be considered a suicide mission someone involved must be aware of the risks” - Tygra did in fact lead the other Cats on one to Mumm-Ra’s pyramid.
You are also quite wrong in regards to Tygra readily taking blame, his (pretty much) admitting that Lion-O was the better leader, and the other Cats questioning of Tygra.
WilyKit was busy marking trails for Lion-O and holding to her belief he would save them. WilyKat was busy minding his sister. Aside from a quip on the skiff, neither Kitten did much questioning of Tygra.
Same with Panthro; outside of a snide remark, he really didn’t question Tygra at all. At least not the way he used to dig into Lion-O.
Nor did Cheetara do much questioning. If anything, she was the most willing to blindly follow Tygra to their doom.
After they got caught, Tygra spent most of his time moping about being caught and wondering how Lion-O would have done things. When Lion-O did free them, Tygra did say that he would follow his King anywhere…only to go right back to being a douchebag prick to Lion-O the very next episode.
So much for Tygra’s declaration of dedication but then again, a constant of Tygra’s throughout the series was to claim such things only to go back on his word the very next breath.
When did Lion-O order Cheetara to do anything during New Alliances? The fact is, he never ordered Cheetara to follow him nor did he order her to continue to fight. It is clear Lion-O assumed that Cheetara would follow him and that he assumed she would watch his back but he never ordered it of her.
Given his surprise when Cheetara threw down her staff it is a safe assumption that Lion-O expected Cheetara to fight with him as a team to save Tygra. While it is true such a course might have - and might have can’t be stressed enough - resulted in Tygra’s death, the fact is, if Stretch Panthro hadn’t shown up, it is a certainty that all three Cat’s would have been killed due to Cheetara’s choice. As you claim Lion-O’s emotions got the best of him, it is quite clear the same can be said of Cheetara - to a much more disasterous effect.
Now, why did Lion-O rush in alone? Did it by chance have anything to do with Cheetara suddenly adopting Tygra’s xenophobic mindset concerning the Lizards? Seems like it considering prior to the fan hated hookup, Cheetara believed in Lion-O’s ideals and after the fan hated hookup Cheetara suddenly agrees with Tygra that the Lizards aren’t worth the risk.
And during that fight, where was Cheetara’s super speed? Where was the sniper rifle that Tygra suddenly mastered overnight? All magically forgotten by the Crew it seems for the sake of the moments plot, not the overall series.
Something intersting many noticed (myself included) was that in New Alliances, Cheetara was willing to put everything the Cats were working towards in jeopardy because of Tygra yet Journey to the Tower of Omens showed all that Tygra was not willing to do the same for Cheetara - supposedly the Cat he loved since cubhood. Cheetara is getting fried by Mumm-Ra’s Sith Lightening and which Cat tries to help her? Not Tygra but Lion-O. And which Cat is it that pulls Lion-O away when he tries to rush to Cheetara’s aid? It is Tygra who tells Lion-O that the Book is all that matters. Even at the top of the Tower, it is Lion-O and not Tygra who takes the Sith lighteneing attacks from Mumm-Ra to protect Cheetara.
I think every fan considered that. But, after 26 episodes of Lion-O never even coming close to beginning to surpass Tygra, the majority of fans just got sick and tired of the wait and began to wonder if it would ever happen or if the Crew just planned on keeping up with their 26 episode tradition of kicking Lion-O down in the mud so Tygra-Stu could stay comfy on his gilded pedestal.
It’s like MegaMan X. What gamer would want to play MegaMan X if they knew X never got anywhere near to Zero’s power? The game would be pointless. Same general concept with the NS.
Maybe if the Crew had given fans one episode that definitively showed it was possible for Lion-O to surpass Tygra at some point things might have been different but as it stands, fans got 26 episodes to the contrary.
I really think that is why the ratings took such a severe dive after the first hiatus. It wasn’t that a few fans here and there didn’t know the series had returned, it was because by that point, so many fans were so beyond upset about the way the Crew handled the characters - especially Lion-O - that they simply stopped watching. They knew full well that Lion-O would still be a bootheel for 13 more episodes and to a large degree, they were right.
I don’t find it pathetic, just way too late. If more people had been allowed to express their concerns and criticisms in regards to the NS sooner, the series might have been salvageable. The Crew could have seen more clearly that the majority of fans weren’t pleased with the direction of the series and taken steps to rectify their mistakes if they were mature enough to be wiling to do so. The problem though was a handful of bullies that trolled the forums and talkback threads, intimidating and harassing others into silence. Now that the series is a pinewood box six-feet under the ground though, I am noticing many of the same people who once attacked others for their criticisms in regards to the NS are now agreeing with those they attacked.
I doubt it would make any real difference, when you think of how long it takes to make the various episodes…but yes after the first few episodes they really should have made changes but having said that there was a faults from the first episode and I don’t know how they could have corrected those, unless they did a Dallas stunt and passed off the first few episodes as Lion-O’s dream.
Would their be any point? It would probably just turn into a thread of people saying how the creators messed it up.
I isolated this comment because this brings up a really good point about people who were angry at Cheetara for disobeying orders. (ok not orders, but you know what I mean)
What if it wasn’t Tygra?
Say if it was Kit or Kat that Kaynar had threatened to kill? If Lion-O had went “there’s still two of us,” Would people still feel the same way about her saying no?
Also the team was NOT on a suicide mission. A suicide mission is a mission where you go in fully expecting to die. They were trying to get the Sword back. If they expected to die doing that, there would’ve been no way for the mission to be a success, because as soon as they died the mission automatically failed. It was a dangerous mission, but it wasn’t a suicide mission.
If anyone went on a suicide mission it was Lion-O. He’s the one that went in to save everyone while thinking he was giving up his soul to do it. He went in thinking he was going to die again.
I honestly don’t get why people hate that they questioned Lion-O. Of course they questioned him. He’s a fresh King and they’re basically the equivalent of his council. A lot of times (though not always) when they questioned him, they were right.
the confusing part for me in this series is their memory loss when dealing with their powers in some situations. in that scenario, Cheetara who’s pretty much the equivalent of DC comics the Flash for the thundercats universe forgot to at least try to use her speed powers to save Tygra. i’m pretty sure she’s fast enough to get to Tygra before kaynar did any damage. instead she takes her sweet time to throw down her weapon and surrenders. i honestly blame her for the death of lion-o.
Kit and Kat never questioned him, but then they didn’t really question Lion-O either.
Panthro did twice, first asking if he was sure he wanted to go into the pyramid, and then saying he was crazy when he wanted to jump down from the vents.
Cheetara, after the alarms went off went “What now, King?” While not a criticism in itself, it was definitely a sarcastic remark. Why would she call her boyfriend “King” like that?
Actually people did talk about things they didnt like during the show. especially during the hiatus after episode 13. By the time the episodes aired it was too late to change a thing. The scripts were already written, and the voice work was recorded before the first episode had even premiered. And the animation was done by a different team in Japan. Animation isn’t a fast process.
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Now that I can agree with. They did forget their powers too much for plot convenience.
But, that wasn’t the same episode Lion-O died in.
Lion-O has the swordsmanship skills to defeat a master swordsman like ‘The Duellist’ yet he never showed the skill again when fighting the mutants and then Tygra was able to defeat him in sword combat.
I think while Tygra has the skills and charisma to easily earn people’s respect and get people to follow him, he lacks the ideals or vision that Lion-O has and in the long run Tygra wouldn’t be any better than Claudus was, and it rulers like Claudus that led to Thundera’s destruction.
A big part of Lion-O’s character development is struggling to try and get the respect and followers he needs to enact his ideals. A lot of the mistakes he makes early on are when he tries to do what he thinks will get people to respect him, which his upbringing from Tygra and Claudus has taught him is using his strength or might. Now this has worked a couple of times; Lion-O impressed Panthro by defeating Driller, and he (supposedly) got Pumyra’s full affection when he defended her from Mumm-Ra. But he didn’t get respect when he acted recklessly.
In both instances these are other cats who he gains respect from, people who have believed that strength makes a good leader. Lion-O wasn’t trying to impress them though, he was just doing what he needed to do. Deep down Lion-O knows that it’s his ideals that make a good leader, but it’s not until the Trials that he grows out of the habit of trying to show off his strength to earn respect like Tygra does. A good example is when he chooses to not fight Pumyra, whereas someone like Tygra or Panthro most likely would have in that situation. Granted, things didn’t work out with Pumyra in the end, but on the other hand it earned Lion-O the respect of Dobo and the dogs for it, who become a valuable ally later. I believe that the Trials really do mark a big shift in Lion-O’s character, as he becomes much more sure of the path he needs to take.
Lion-O rarely tried to appeal to others with his morality because so many saw it as a weakness, and it only lost him respect. What it comes down to is Lion-O learning to let his ideals give him the strength he needs, and in turn it’s this which earns him people’s respect in the end. There has to be a balance; Lion-O can’t simply use force to get people to follow his ideals, nor can simply talking about his ideals alone convince people. He has to use both his strength and idealism in tandem to truly get people on his side, which is what he manages to do.
There you go again, Gold Lion, you’re trying to make it so that Tygra has respectable qualities. But i personally just can’t find anything about Tygra that makes me respect him. I think he’s selfish, i think he’s a braggart, i think he’s a bully, and i definitely do not think that he deserves to be the leader of anything.
And what cheeses me off the most is that all the things that someone who deserves to be a leader often has or goes through (i.e. Having a parent who risked everything to save them, adoptive parents who loved them dearly, a happy childhood that included meeting the person who would one day be their spouse) are given to Tygra instead of Lion-O. How is that supposed to work?
There you go again, srebak, sounding like a broken record. None are so blind as those who will not see. You don’t see that Tygra has any respectable qualities because you don’t want to. One could just as easily say that Lion-O is selfish, irresponsible, inexperienced, and definitely does not deserve to be leader of anything.
By all accounts, Lion-O had a happy childhood, and a parent who loved him dearly and who sacrificed everything to save him, so how is he “missing out”? A better question is what did Lion-O do to deserve to inherit the Sword of Omens and the kingdom of Thundera other than just be born?
