I just don't see it...

Cartoons ThunderCats (2011)
1

I’ve thought about this show many times before (not enough for it to be an obsession, mind you) and, quite frankly, i just can’t see things the way the rest of you see them.

You all look at the Pilot episode and see the things that Lion-O was forced to endure as being understandable and a show of good storytelling. But i look at it and see a special that was just plain mean to our main character and it was just for being who he is.

You look at Claudus and see a loving father, but i see a father who sees his son as a disappointment. And when it comes to parenting, a parent who wants nothing to do with their child is a terrible person.

You all look at Tygra and see a character who’s been through a lot and deserves our sympathy, but i look at him and all i see is a jerk who needs to be told off like never before and then needs to be shown why he is unfit to be king and never will deserve the right to rule

You all look at the events of Episodes 14-15 and only see Lion-O being the one at fault, but i see Lion-O getting attacked and hurt and acting out on those feelings. Without anyone showing him the slightest amount of sympathy either

You all look at what happened in “The Pit” and see a Cat who was justly frustrated with Lion-O for not helping her. But i see an ungrateful Cat who snapped at and assaulted the only person who was willing to help her. Tygra and Cheetara clearly didn’t give a darn and Panthro was openly advising against it. If it were up to them, they would’ve just left Pumyra and not cared about what happened to her. Furthermore, you all here Pumyra’s rant about the Cats plight and see it as valid, but i see it as her unfairly blaming Lion-O for something that wasn’t his fault. He was out there trying to keep Mumm-Ra away from items that would’ve allowed him control over the universe, if Lion-O stopped to help the Cats first instead of stopping Mumm-Ra, helping them would’ve meant nothing in the long run, because Mumm-Ra would’ve been unstoppable and all set to destroy the universe. So when it comes down to it, Pumyra’s behavior in “The Pit” and in “Birth of the Blades” just makes me wish that she would get punished and tortured beyond belief and then be forced to see that she deserves every ounce of it.

You all see the events of “What Lies Above part 2” and see a great episode, but i look at it and see another low blow for Lion-O

That’s all i gotta say, what do you think?

2

Blame the writers.

3

Honestly if you’re that upset about their treatment of him then just stop talking about it. It’s just a TV show.

4

LOL, you are the one to say that. rofl. How many posts about almost the same thing as he’s written have you also not discussed?

Still holds true, it’s just a tv show. Move on with your lives.

EDIT: What i mean is, you comment and say “if you are upset, calm down it’s a tv-show”. With you writing how stupid CN is and blablabla. Again it’s just a tv-show. ROFL. I’m sorry but i’ve not laughed this much for ages and i thank you for it :smiley:

5

I am very guilty of that. In my defense, I’m questioning how CN runs itself as a business and not complaining about the show being gone/what happened in the show/etc. I don’t think just because it’s a topic I discuss often means I’m being a hypocrite. I like discussing aspects of the show still. I just think that this has been beaten to death already that Lion-O was the victim, and mostly by the same person.

6

Dont get me wrong, i’m doing the same. I just thought it was funny :smiley:

7

Trust me, not everyone reacted nor looked at things the way you describe. Many voices sounded off (and still do) in criticism concerning how the characters were portrayed and the direction the series was headed from the very beginning. The problem came in that any time anyone said something critical about the series here, on facebook, or just about anywhere else, they were shouted down and yelled at, called trolls and haters, and generally bullied by those who felt the series was just the cat’s meow. Many fans left because of this treatment and many more became mutes.

And it wasn’t just other fans that were being nasty, it was the staff of Thundercats as well. I remember reading bits and pieces of peoples criticism to Dan Norton about things like his designs for Pumyra and Cheetara, and the triangle the writing staff tried to pull off and the responces he gave…seems Dan needs to remove the tag “professional” from after his name. I lost just about all the respect I had for him after reading his reactions. Makes me wonder if his leaving WB was voluntary or if he was handed a pink-slip.

What really gets me is now that Thundercats2011 is cancelled, many of the same people who were being just downright nasty and vicious to those who were offering criticism are now themselves offering much of the same criticisms they attacked others for. The least they could do is offer a general apology to all those they attacked in the past.

8

This very much frightens, as well as saddens, me at what has been said and criticized. Words truly are hurtful, but it can either build someone up or demolish someone, but that depends how big of a wrecking ball your ego is. There is a level of truth that there was a lack of unity in the direction in which the show was made, which I shake my head in dismay. Fans of any franchise at times are no different than a country club church.

9

I’ll probably get lynched for typing this but I do believe it falls on the fans of the NS to shoulder some of the responsibility for the series failings.

First off, the best advertising there is is word of mouth. WB and CN could have spent all the money possible on TV spots and such for the show but when you cut through all the excuses the fact remains that if people aren’t talking, people aren’t listening. Seemed very few were talking about the NS and those who were weren’t saying much to grab and hold the interest of others.

During the OS run, kids were constantly talking it up. They’d talk about it in school, on the playground, on the bus, in the cafeteria, at home, et cetera. They’d play with the toys in public and parents would chat about where to find the figures, prices, and so on. As much as there were commercials for the toys, the big advertisment was kids themselves.
With the NS, we really didn’t have that at all. Most of the talk about the toys was how poorly the figures were made, the design flaws, and the possibility of OS era toys being released.

We have the internet now where people can communicate in the blink of an eye so in many ways, fans really have nobody to blame but themselves for lack of advertising and promotion.

Next is the in-fighting and that is probably the biggest reason fans need to shoulder blame for the NS’s lack of success. There was just too much bleeping fighting going on between fans. Worse than a Mexican standoff between NaruSaku and NaruHina fans.
I swear, whichever crew member came up with that whole Twlighty Team Lion-O vs team tygra nonsense should be smacked around with every POS book written by Stephanie Meyer because that rivalry did nothing but create problems.
Darn near nothing could be said about the series without offending/upsetting someone from some faction who would then fly off into a tantrum which in turn would bring more people in from the various factions and next thing anyone knew, it just broke down into a match to see who could insult the other the most.

So yeah, I believe that fans need to man up (or woman up depending on gender) and accept some of the blame.

10

Well I wouldn’t say the NS fans are to blame for the series failings.
The NS fans had no part in the creative decision making or the path the series took.

Couldn’t agree more.

11

I see all of that and see characters who aren’t perfect, and who weren’t designed to be perfect. They all have flaws. Who want’s Mary Sues and Gary Stus as characters? Not me.
Merged Post:

I read those same responses too, and furthermore I read what provoked them. I believe Dan went a little overboard, but the people he was replying to weren’t innocent at all. They instigated it.

12

No but we fans did have the responsibility of making the fandom a welcome place and that is where many, many failed. Instead of embracing the differences of others, we fought over those differences. Fans fell into factions and refused to give any quarter to those who were not of the same faction.

Lol, I agree about the Sues and Stus. That is why I had such a problem with Tygra-Stu’s character in the NS.:stuck_out_tongue:

Given that you hold yourself as a friend to Mr. Norton, I understand why you would make such excuses for his deplorable behavior. Myself, I don’t agree that a person giving their opinion/criticism is provoking or instigating such a reaction. I mean, not a single one of them said they hated his art or the series as a whole, they just said they had some minor issues and it was Mr. Norton who came out of the gate swinging like a drunken brawler. Also, I can’t agree that his reaction was him going a little overboard. Maybe if it had been a one-time only deal but not when he did it multiple times. And it is because he went psucho-headcase crazy more than once that I question not only his professionalism but if his leaving WB was voluntary or not.

I do agree with you that the poeple on the recieving end of Mr. Norton’s flipouts aren’t innocent though. They are guilty of feeding the beast and should have just walked away as soon as they saw Mr. Norton’s less than mature reaction. Better to leave well enough alone in that regard.

13

I can’t help but feel bad for him. Who knows what he’s dealing with personally right now. It seems like everyone is turning on him, and may feel like the whole world is turning on him.

14

That is true but both sides are guilty of causing the fights. I guess they were just as eager to defend the NS as we were the OS.

15

Well then, now that you’ve all made your “It’s just a cartoon” remarks (as i knew you would when i started this thread), perhaps we can now focus on the points that i made as they would apply within the show’s universe. Not the reasons behind them as they would apply when talking about the creators of the show.

16

This topic is just beating a dead horse now. The only answers you’re going to get are the “no Mary Sues” argument and “the writers suck” argument. It hardly seems worth it to keep discussing something that’s left to such opinionated replies instead of a logical answer, especially when those opinions differ so drastically.

17

Tygra should have been king as he was better than Lion-O in everyway.
Skills and abilities matter more when selecting a leader rather than bloodline.

18

from what i got from this series concerning Tygra and Lion-O skills and abilities, Tygra would have been the better choice for a king. he was portrayed to be so much better than Lion-O for the duration of the series. the thing is, the series was cancelled midway through the supposed 50+ episodes. therefore we will never know how much Lion-O would have grown over the course of those 50+ episodes.

19

Yeah, I have to agree that Tygra was made out by the TC Crew to be the better Cat but I do believe that hurt the series in the long run.

For 26 episodes, we got practically zero growth for Lion-O. He would learn a lesson then forget it the very next episode. Meanwhile, for the better part of 26 episodes, Tygra was shining brighter than Helios in his chariot.

For 26 episodes, Lion-O could barely use a sword, often winning against a villian by the sheer luck of a single hit. Tygra on the other hand, could not only work a sword and a whip, he could pick up laser pistols and sniper rifles and use them right off the bat as if he’d trained with firearms all his life even though he’d never even seen such weaponry before.

For 26 episodes, if Lion-O puts the team in jeopardy, he gets berated by the entire team. For 26 episodes, if Tygra puts the team in jeopardy, not a critical word is said; not even when he tries to kill Lion-O twice or when he bets the teams stones against Vultaire.

For 26 episodes, be it climbing a tree to ring a bell, Tygra won. Dueling, Tygra won. Tron cycle race, Tygra won. Pursuit of love, Tygra won. Outside of familial inheritance and a sentient mystical weapons choice, Lion-O always lost to Tygra.

For 26 episodes, Lion-O barely managed unlock even a portion of the Sword of Omens potential. Tygra gained the ability to pilot any aircraft with the reason being because his ancestors could.

I don’t believe too many fans were happy with the way Lion-O kept getting the short end of the straw for 26 episodes and given that the Crew really showed no signs of ending that trend, I really doubt we would have seen much growth in the Lion-O department had the series continued. If anything, the “direction that would have blown minds” hinted at the comi-con panels would have probably involved Lion-O handing over the title of King and the Sword of Omens to Tygra who would have beaten Mumm-Ra and the Ancient Spirits of Evil in one strike then gone on to marry Cheetara, Pumyra, and WilyKit while Lion-O went to live in the mountains as a hermit.

20

LOL, Lion-O going off to live as a hermit.
The other cats respected Tygra that’s why they didn’t call him up on his mistakes.
Lion-O didn’t have any ability which he was better at than the other Cats.