Since the Tigers sided with Mumm-Ra, they were considered traitors by the other Cats. As the lone Tiger among the Cats, Tygra was regarded with mistrust and suspicion since infancy.
By all accounts, Claudus was a distant and reluctant father to Tygra by virtue of Tygra not being his biological son.
After the only person who truly cared for Tygra died, he was immediately supplanted by Lion-O. Suddenly, the son who was good enough to inherit the throne when the king and queen could not conceive was no longer good enough.
Tygra dedicated his life to excellence in order to earn the love of his father and the trust of his subjects that Lion-O was given freely by virtue of his birth.
Tygra resented that Lion-O took these things for granted.
Lion-O, on the other hand, was discouraged by the high bar for excellence set by Tygra. Thinking he could never reach it, he stopped trying, and shirked his princely responsibilities.
The reason the Cats were more willing to follow the leadership of Tygra is because he did the work, as opposed to Lion-O who was declared a leader by fiat.
In the end, neither Tygra or Lion-O is good or bad with respect to the way they relate to one another, they just are.
I don’t think neither Tygra or Pumyra should be punished for displaying human emotions and human flaws. Now, if we talk about them “learning a lesson”, then I think it would be a good thing, but I also think all of the TCs should be taught a lesson concerning their flaws.
You know I have never considered Lion-o a saint, he has made some terrible things himselves.
I think there are much better ways to get the message across instead of humiliating or beating the characters.
As for Tygra suddenly becoming a massive screw up, that would be **** poor writing. We have already been shown that Tygra does have qualities that could make him a good leader, or at least a good source of council for Lion-O ( including Cheetara and Panthro) . Doing a 180 and turning him into the inept butt monkey of the show would really only be for your personal amusement. Tygra needs to learn to be a bit more compassionate. Maybe Lion-O can teach him that. I know some people want him to just fall in line with everything Lion-O says, but I doubt that will ever happen. They are brothers. They were raised as equals. It would be extremely hard to forget that while on the field..well, I think so…sorta. I do think one day Tygra really could come to respect him as a leader, but it will probably always battle with Tygra’s view of him as a little brother.
I always figured Pumyra would probably end up redeeming herself by paying the “ultimate price” in exchange for either Lion-O’s life, or some huge cause. Which might just end up with her being saved somehow by Lion-O. This imo, fits better with the themes in the show. Besides, having her beaten and chained up sounds like some sick torture fantasy, and probably wouldn’t make it past the censors.
First of all- yeah, i know, this is just a tv show, but a good tv show/movie really makes you feel like it is real and really makes you feel for the characters. That’s how i have come to feel for every show and movie that i’ve watched over the years, and that’s why i usually feel bad when the main character goes through some sort of trouble that seems undeserved.
Second of all - I know that you all think that i’m beating the “Lion-O was treated badly” topic to a pulp, and maybe i am, but the fact of the matter is, that has always been my pet peeve with this show. I just feel more sympathy for Lion-O than i do any other Thundercat, especially Tygra. No matter how i look at it, all i see is our main character getting tortured, bullied, chastised and insulted from all over, and i know how frustrating that can be (it’s happened to me). You all may see the others TCats just offering some advice to Lion-O, but all i see is them chastising him, thinking they could do the job better. Maybe Lion-O would have listened to what they had to say if they used a little more kind words, instead of just the “your way is wrong” kind of tone. Yes, i know, Cheetara did that, but she was the only one and now she just stopped and has instead become more snarky towards him.
Don’t get me wrong, “Native Son” did make me feel a little sympathy for Tygra, but that hardly makes up for an entire half of the season where he made Lion-O’s job all the more difficult. And that’s why i really think he needs to get some karma for that. The same somewhat applies for Pumyra, she’s been through alot, i get that, but that hardly gives her the right to attack the sovereign of her people, especially when they were risking a lot just to help someone that they had no earthly reason to help. I still say that Lion-O had no real reason to want to help Pumyra and if it were me, i would have just went for the sword and let the Lizards and Mumm-Ra kill her.
You say you sympathize with Lion-O because you have gone through similar hardships, but you and Lion-O are turning out to be two very different sorts.
You would have left Pumyra to her death, but that is NOT who Lion-O is. I’ll admit he was cruel to hand Tygra over to the Addicus and Kaynar, but the character you claim to love and respect is not the sort of man who would under rational thought leave a girl ( especially one who just went through a horrific trauma ) in the hands of a monster. You talk as if you don’t understand Lion-O, and it’s starting to become increasingly obvious why you don’t.
If he wants to bring Pumyra to justice, then fine. It’s hard to argue that he would be wrong to do so. I’m sure Lion-O would come up with something human and fair. Handing one of your own over to the enemy just seems like it would reflect horribly on your people and yourself as a ruler.
yeah he made Lion-O’s life sooooo difficult. It just ticks me off when I think about all the plans Tygra foiled, and how he’s almost gotten our king killed multiple times and all the other catastrophic life changing negative incidents in which he pretty much tutored Lion-O into submission:o It’s not like they just argued a lot. It was so much more than that.
Lion-O and Tygra both have pride on their side. Their competitive spirits are what keep them from relating to each other. I would have Tygra be punished by having him ensnared in a trap that attracts body heat so that he and Lion-O will finally get along better.
I, personally, don’t believe Pumyra is in control of all her actions. Otherwise it just doesn’t make sense to me to be mad at Lion-O for not saving her, but being ok with the guy who actually killed her. As such I think she should be freed from the control (even if that means her dying again; her spirit would be free) instead of punished.
Tygra hasn’t really done anything evil. He’s been a jerk, but that’s hardly something that deserves corporal punishment.
I was thinking that about Pumyra a while ago, but you know people can be pretty darn stupid when they are emotionally compromised. I mean her hatred was strong enough for Mumm-Ra to sniff her out. Sounds like she was extremely mad ( Drooling for the chance to know why Pumyra was affected so strongly by Lion-O “turning his back” on her) . Not to say Mumm-Ra didn’t do some manipulating during the whole Resurrection thing.
I still don’t understand why “The Pit” happened the way it did. If Pumyra was planning on betraying them from the get go, then why not play the ever thankful damsel in distress? Why would she do all of that if she was suppose to end up gaining his trust ? Wouldnt it make more sense to start buttering him up from the jump?
By making it more confusing? Beating the stuffing out of someone is not the best /easiest way to gain their trust so you can later betray them. I don’t see how The Pit set up the possibility of her being a mole/traitor, because her actions were understandable. She was extremely hurt and angry about Lion-O’s abandonment, and so she lashed out. Nothing really setting off any alarm bells or forshadowing a betrayal.
One of the theories I’ve tossed around in my head is that she does have at least some control over her actions. That anger and rage she felt during her initial face to face meeting with Lion-O might have been Pumyra’s own hate for him taking control. Otherwise, Mumm-Ra could use some lessons on infiltration
Instead of having TP go down the way it did, wouldnt it have made more sense for her to immediately take a liking to Lion-O and his friends. For all Pumyra knows ( let’s not forget she already thinks he’s the type to walk away from responsibility) her hostility in TP could have jeopardized her entire mission.
I do remember a few people tooting the traitor horn in the talkback for The Pit, but I don’t think people really started jumping on that until BotB.
honestly, you make a lot great points about the way Pumyra behaved towards Lion-o. i’ll be honest myself, half the stuff that went on in the series made no sense to me until i saw the end result. i usually just chalk it up to the way the writers chose to tell the story. for example, the love triangle that never really was if you ask me. i’m not trying to beat on a dead horse by bringing it up, but the whole lead up to Cheetara’s decision was just so confusing. i know there were some very little subtle hints to show there might be something between Tygra and Cheetara, but i believe it wasn’t enough to sell me that the two have been in love since childhood.
we could probably say the same for the Pumyra story arc as well.
Knowing that you are a writer, I don’t really mind these questions you pose. I just look at it as you probing for material. Besides, it’s not like everyone has to answer.
For me, as much as I really, REALLY disliked Tygra in the series I wouldn’t want to see him punished - just get some well-deserved karmic justice.
Have a Cat or two actually call him out on his xenophobia - something none have done at all even though it has put the Cats into jeopardy almost as much as Mumm-Ra has. He even got cheered on when he bet the Stones against Vultaire…WTH…
Have a Cat or two actually call him out on his past assassination attempts against Lion-O. Twice now he has tried to kill a member of the Royal Family and twice now, nothing has been said or done about it outside of rewarding Tygra for the attempt by having him “get the girl.”
Have a Cat or two call him out on his often broken promises of trust and loyalty to Lion-O. Each time he has professed a desire to follow Lion-O he goes right back to acting like a scumbag to Lion-O.
They could have shown some actual consequences for Tygra’s deplorable actions instead of keeping him such a Stu character.
As for Pumyra, as bad a character choice it was to make her evil, I wouldn’t want to see her punished for it. Like Tygra, there was room for character redemption.
Since she is evil, having Cats call her out on things wouldn’t really work that well. She could have been shown to begin to regret her choice to become evil and attempt to do good deeds when she could, secretly aiding the Cats. She could have “sacrificed” herself for the greater good and gone on to stand by Jaga’s side.
Srebak, none of my earlier comments were meant as an attack against you. It’s just all your topics and questions basically highlight how bad the writing for the NS was and I wanted the NS to be a success.
I wasn’t offended by your comments, Mark M, like i said, i make these threads to ventilate about how i feel about this reboot.
And on that note, I have to say, my grievances regarding Lion-O’s treatment in the series are clearly going to be a sticking point when i think about this reboot. No matter how hard i try to think about the episodes where Lion-O didn’t get the short end of the stick, they’re always outweighed by the ones that were hard on him. True, like EyesWideOpen said, i am a writer and i am in the process of writing my own personal Season 2 where Lion-O doesn’t get pushed around as much and those who wronged him (Tygra and Pumyra) get their comeuppance (to a degree). But that’s all my fanon Season two is; fanon: fan fiction. Unless i actually see what happens to Lion-O now, i’ll never truly be at rest with this show, especially since i think that Tygra and Pumyra definitely need to answer for for their bad behavior.
This bothers me because, i know what it’s like to be treated like dirt just for being who i am, i happened to me all the time, and i know that i hated it when the people who teased me always got away with what they did to me and never got punished for it. I also know what it’s like to want to help someone only for them turn you away. I just hate to see someone else go through the same thing.
Plus, i just recently watched “Thundercats Ho” from the original series and, i gotta say, i liked original Pumyra’s reaction to meeting original Lion-O: she was grateful that he saved her life and as soon as she found out who he was, she bowed her head like someone of her class should do when standing in front of a King, and respected the fact that Lion-O was royalty and she was a commoner. That’s the kind of respect this version of Lion-O deserves.
It sounds to me like it is more of a revenge fantasy.
Why should Pumyra scrape and grovel before Lion-O simply because he had the good fortune of being born to royalty and she did not? That is a pretty disgusting attitude.
in Pumyra’s defense, first of all she’s dead and what’s left of her spirit is being controlled by mum-ra. i believe every thing she did was due to mum-ra’s manipulation. as for Tygra, he’s an ass but he deeply cares for his brother and he’s proved on a few occasions. me personally, i would have been happy if the writers didn’t make Tygra and Lion-o related in any way.
