Episode 007 – Trouble with Time

Cartoons ThunderCats (1985)
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Episode 007 – Trouble with Time

New characters introduced:

Willa – Queen of the Warrior Maidens

Nayda – Willa’s sister, also a Warrior Maiden

What or who is that serving the Mutants in the beginning? It has scales like a reptilian, a nose and mouth like a monkian, and is tall and scrawny like a jackalman. Is it some form of mutant Mutant?

This episode has a very mature main theme to it, apparently aimed at the older kids. But at the same time, this episode is surprisingly creative. Younger kids may not understand all of the mature themes, but they can still learn about gaining trust and friendships. Meanwhile older kids would pick up on the stereotype themes.

While it was said under his breath, we get our first “big” word of the series; chauvinist.  To those, like children, who would not know what this word means, it is easy to guesstimate from the moments leading up to its use.  Monkian says they need slaves and/or servants.  Slithe sends Monkian on a mission to find and capture a few females to enslave as cooks.  Monkian calls Slithe a “chauvinist reptillain”.  It is a bit ironic that Monkian already knows it is wrong to assume some duties can only be done by a specific gender, yet he runs into people who clearly break those stereotypical molds on his quest.

Monkian set himself up for an epic failure by counting his captive before he captured her. But why does Monkian think it was too easy? Is it because he found a girl so quickly? Or was it the fact she was alone, unarmed, focused on fishing, and with her back to him? At first it seems he is being chauvinist, but considering the number of advantages already listed, plus the element of surprise, it is understandable why he would be overconfident in being able to capture anyone in this scenario.

Meanwhile back at Cats Lair, Lion-O wants to take the ThunderTank out for a spin, but his first driving lesson is “tomorrow”. But wait, didn’t Panthro say Lion-O took to driving it like a fish to water in Pumm-Ra? Also in Pumm-Ra, the ThunderCats were going to the Thundrilliam fields, yet now they have to look to see if any exists on Third Earth. The airdate and production order both place this episode after Pumm-Ra, odd… Going on the schedule of 4 episodes at a time, this one would have been in the same group as Pumm-Ra, so they probably just got thrown out of order.

Lion-O’s encounter with Willa is weird on so many levels. Considering the apparent theme so far from this episode is Lion-O just helping someone in need, or does he assume a girl can’t take care of herself? Willa then seems to be resentful for some reason, either because someone else came to her aid, or just the fact that one of the strangers is trying to carry on a conversation with her. They both accuse each other of spying; we know Lion-O was just minding his own business until he had an odd feeling, but Willa later tells Nayda she really was following him. And it ends with Lion-O telling himself “…soft name for such a tough girl” while Willa orders the other Warrior Maidens keep a close watch on Lion-O.

Poor Tygra. Even random accidents seem to pick on him more than the other ThunderCats. Is his character supposed to be the stereotypical nerd who is very smart, but always has bad luck? It’s a good thing he isn’t Lord of the ThunderCats, or he would be the victim of everything, all the time… Like Kenny on South Park, lol.

Willa’s surprise assistance to Lion-O sets a new tone for the remainder of this episode. Suddenly she is nice and courteous towards Lion-O; seeing Lion-O face off against the guy that tried to kidnap her sister probably had something to do with her sudden attitude change. And she shows how you can win a fight without having to stand face to face with your enemy, and that an individual can defeat multiple enemies at once. Willa is now warning Lion-O of possible danger ahead, quite a leap from secretly following him to learn more about him.

Another lesson/moral shows up with Jaga. You can save time and trouble by taking your time and learning everything you can before rushing off to action.

Returning to the original theme of the episode, Cheetara is the only person who can save Tygra.

The Geyser of Life could have been a major part of the series. A fountain of youth, guarded by just winged water snakes. Lynx-O could have benefited from it later in the series, and Vultureman could have schemed up some weapon to turn the ThunderCats into ThunderCubs.

The friendship between the ThunderCats and the Warrior Maidens may be under construction. But considering Willa and Nayda went out of their way to prevent the Mutants from attacking the ThunderCats, it is safe to say the ThunderCats have gained the trust of some new friends.

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I may be biased by nostalgia (my VHS of this episode received near constant playback), but I count “Trouble with Time” among the best episodes of the series. You spoke to the multiple themes, and mature moral messages; but more than anything, it’s the tone of this episode that always struck me.

Willa’s distrust, the dangerous Third Earth locales, the potentially hopeless search for thundrillium — all of these suggest just how uncomfortable and lonely life on this new world could be for the ThunderCats. I know I’m elevating a cartoon to somewhat lofty heights here, but the concept of a small group of refugees stranded on a savage, empty world with enemies outnumbering (skeptical) allies and danger at every turn is SCARY! “Trouble with Time” is the only episode that conveys that terror for me.

As usual with Jaga’s platitudes, this moral stuck with me most as a kid, and applies most strongly to children, who are impetuous by nature.

You’re right! Considering how often they used the Cave of Time, it’s odd that the Geyser of Life never came into play again. I guess the Cave of Time was somehow more memorable for the writers.

I don’t know. Thanks to Tygra, I think I was the only kindergartner who used the word “reconnoiter” on the playground. 8)

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Atmospheric compatibility!!
:liono

Yes. And for some reason Tygra is the one with the addictive personality (this has nothing to do with this episode but…) Like in The Garden of Delights or later on with the KeyStone (The Crystal Canyon I think the ep is..)

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Double points for both of you. I completely missed both of those prior “big” words. Just by watching these episodes over and over as a kid, these words have been changed from “big” words to everyday words for me. Now that’s a sign of a great educational show. Not only are morals woven into the plot, kids get to learn new and sophisticated words!!

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It’s not just Monkian’s remark on ‘chauvinistic Reptile’ and Slythe’s anti-feministic words which elevate this episode to a mature story telling and present one of the most contradictory moments of the whole Series. I refer to the scene where Tygra has entered into the Cave of time; he is ready to collapse for good but at the nick of time the fastest being on Third Earth, Cheetara, grabs her senile teammate and pulls him out before he leaves his last breath inside there.

I guess Ron Goulart and Julian P. Gardner intended to lay emphasis on the moral lesson of how the bad guys treat and consider the women as slaves who are needed primarily for cooking and cleaning dishes. This was quite interesting and thought provoking, if you think that most of the moral-driven cartoons of that time were sending messages like:always listen to your parents, don’t cross the road unless the green light is on or never rush onto actions and pay attention to the grown-ups who are more experienced and know better than you and such issues. But, putting down the subject of feminism and to a larger extent of the women’s right was very smart and was developed in a refined way. I believe this is why we are being introduced to the Warrior Maidens in this episode for the first time. Willa the confident and tough leader of the Treetop Kingdom of the Warrior Maidens as well as the brave and courageous Nayda were both examples of how powerful, self dependent and able to handle their own business without the presence of men, the women can be. However, we witness them expressing an overtly xenophobic attitude. Behaving like wild Amazons they decide to get rid of the Mutants and Thundercats too, instead of observing carefully the foreign races landing in their territory and passing judgment later. This is one more ethical teaching coming out from this episode. Willa seemed very angry and hostile towards Lion-o after saving her from the giant Lizathon. Her unfair prejudice reaches to the border of racism. Of course they become good friends and allies as the story progress but this antithesis is very well shown and touches a chord of real-life incidents between people living in miscellaneous societies, difficult situations and social behaviors.

Generally, this is a fast paced episode putting many diverse elements into one, like the Thundrillium’s importance to the Thundercats. However, the most memorable part was Tygra’s sudden transformation into a weakened and frayed old man. Kind of scary I’d say, considering the cave’s dark background and the skeletons surrounding it. It was really heart-breaking to see Tygra in this state, none other Thundercat has ever aged in such a harsh and repulsive manner throughout the whole show. The shocking sight with the black/blue shades reflecting upon the feeble Tygra expedited the inevitable. As a kid this tragic scenery was imprinted on my mind. The irony is that earlier in this episode, Tygra is actually the one who advices Lion-o to take heed of the possible dangers of this yet unknown planet! And a little bit later he wound up a pile of bones, hardly recognizable!!Also, the animation and the camera showing constantly the carcasses of dead bodies was so brilliant and convincing us of what is to happen with the poor Thundercat. When Cheetara run to the rescue we witness a great moment: an old, frail man being carried by a young and vigorous woman, furthermore, when the rest of the team carries the weak Tygra on top of a makeshift mattress towards the Geyser of Life. And the fact that they actually are around the same age and members of the same team causes an even huger impact on the viewer. This antithesis should be mentioned for one more reason, we might have seen Jaga, Lynx-o and Claudus portrayed older but Tygra is the only Thundercat depicted in this heart-wrenching way. The young ThunderCubs and Lion-o becoming little again in Time Switch don’t create the same sad feelings as in Tygra’s predicament in Trouble with Time.
All in all, a truly great episode.

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I remember seeing this episode when Thundercats was being shown on the Cartoon Network a few years ago (somehow I missed it the first time around! :o). The tension between our heroes and the Warrior Maidens was really done well. You have to think about it from Willa’s point of view. All she knows is that there’s these two alien groups invading her home and causing a lot of turmoil with their own personal conflict.

And she has good reason to be wary; she sees the mutants bickering with each other, damaging the enviornment, kidnapping her sister and generally being all around idiots! And she pretty much assumes the Thundercats can’t be all that different. Even when Lion-O helps her, she insists you can’t always trust a cat (Heck, even in real life that’s true! :wink: ). It’s only when she actually spends some time with the Thundercats and sees their concern for Tygra (one of their own in trouble) and their dedication to setting things right. Plus Lion-O’s decision to respect Willa’s knowledge and experience. As opposed to the mutants, who would sell each other out in a second, at the expense of all those around them.

Plus you have to love Monkian’s “chauvinist reptile” comment, lolol. You have to remember it was only a few years earlier that the Women’s Movement had really started to seep into the culture.

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I think it looks like an alien. I like how Monkian gripes that they need servants. WHo exactly does he think this creature serving them is?

Because he’s a not very bright mutant. I always expect the mutants to think any task will be easier than it turns out being for them.

When he jumps in front of her, it’s after she shot two arrows at the dinosaur and still hadn’t stopped it as it closed in on her. I think he did what he always does, rush in to help someone in danger. When he offered her his hand, I think he was just being a gentleman.

I am thinking you’re reading a little too much into the episode to think there was this deeper theme about male chauvanism.

The ThunderCats are noble creatures. The idea of them using it to become young again and live forever I don’t think has much honor. It would make them seem afraid to face death. I don’t see Lynx-O ever wanting to use the fountain in that way.

Something I think is interesting is that Willa and Nayda are sisters, yet Nayda has a British accent and Willa does not.

Tygra’s aging - he aged quickly then seemed to stall. That seemed odd to me.

Why didn’t the Thunderkittens respond when Lion-O summoned?

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It’s also about the contrast and how different cultures perceive the same actions in different ways. Willa is already wary and used to being misjudged by males (I’m guessing), and so as a matter of course she takes his action to be “typically male.”

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Lordore- love your analysis.

As someone who loves strong female characters, I love this episode and I think you nailed it.

I really like that Willa is mistrustful of Lion-o in the beginning. Too many female leaders in media are shown as being too open or too soft. Sorry, but uh..no. You cannot lead in a hostile environment in that fashion- you would get yourself and your people killed. You must consider the good of your people first, and all else second. Wish we saw more of Willa than we did, and I hope we will in the new show. We just don’t have enough amazons.

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It’s too bad we never got more background on the warrior maidens. I did always wonder why Willa was as tough as she was and resistant to help from men. And obviously there have to be men somewhere or the warrior maidens couldn’t exist.

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Never know, maybe took the baby girls left out for exposure on someone’s temple steps and raised them.
Wish they would have gone over it more, and recent archeological findings on what we call Amazon culture have proven very interesting.

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I would love to see more of the Warrior Maidens of the Treetop Kingdom in the New Series as well. Willa and Nayda were great female characters. Generally speaking, the thundercats cartoon depicted the women as strong and autonomous with strong personalities. This whole approach, touching on mature issues, does credit to the show. I think this is what the 2011 Thundercats will emphasize on and what the producers implied by saying ‘inner conflicts’, ‘love triangles’ and dark aspect

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Oh please, no love triangles! It’s a cartoon! The last thing I want to see is relationship conflicts between Cheetara and Lion-O and Cheetara and Tygra. If that turns into a soap opera I’m going to be super annoyed. :sneaky:

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Looks like some kind of servant, possibly a slave.

That was one of the inconsistencies that took some of the fun out of watching. Wonder what happened to the substitute fuel?

I thought it was funny that Tygra was so focused on finding Thundrilliam, he doesn’t realize he’s wandering into dangerous territory.

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Here’s a question I had when I watched the episode last night where Lion-O grew younger and younger and they had to rescue him by sending him into the Cave of Time…

As much as Wilykat wanted to be an adult, why didn’t he ever go into the Cave of Time?

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Maybe because, overall, he understood that would be an unnatural growth that might bing some consequences to his psyche. He’s young, but not an 8-years old after all :wink:

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The episode you were thinking of is “Time Switch” and I think the only one where we see a Thunderian cub (baby). :liono

The one thing that bothers me about this episode; if the Mutants couldn’t bash open the capsules in Exodus, why was it so fragile in this one? :confused:

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Maybe, but essentially that’s what happened to Lion-O. So Wilykat could have reasoned that based on how Lion-O turned out, he would have been ok.

Maybe he reasoned that doing so would cause the other ThunderCats to lose respect for him and wouldn’t produce the outcome he was hoping for in regards to his relationship with them. But demonstrating at times that he was a kind of hot-headed kid who acted on impulse, I doubt he’d really have that complex a thought.

More likely I could see Wilykit talking him out of it.

Still, could have made for an interesting episode. We got to see how all the adult ThunderCats looked like as kids. Would have been neat to see what the Thunderkittens would have looked like as adults.

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I agree in that it would have made a great episode.

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Trying to recall if the twins were in that ep… if not, maybe they weren’t told about the cave and were sent to explore areas away from it instead.