Ebay update thread & collectivity issues!

Collecting LJN ThunderCats Toys
21

I’ve been watching Thundercats auctions on eBay for ~15 years. Here’s my two cents on how rare I feel each of the items in question. Note that I am ball-parking most of these numbers:

Laser Sabers Two-Packs - I have never seen one to my knowledge.

Thunderwings Lion-O - This is more common than the Luna Lasher Mumm-Ra counterpart. MOC ones pop up occationally (though are very pricey). I want to say I’ve seen around 3 MOC of these in 15 years and maybe 10 loose ones.

Luna Lasher Mumm-Ra - More rare than Thunderwings Lion-O. I have never seen one MOC and have only ever seen 2 auctioned loose that I’m aware of.

8-back Cheetara (alone) MOC - I am primarily a loose figures collector, so I can’t comment on the scarcity of this particular carded variant.

Bengali MOC - I wouldn’t rate this one as that rare. Its more notable that this item is just plain expensive.

Cats Lair MIB - I want to say I’ve seen auctions for 2 MIB Cats Lairs, as well as another auction for the box by itself. Complete/working Cats Lairs are very rare. I want to say that only 1 of the 2 MIB Cats Lairs were complete with working electronics.

Sword of Omens MIB - This isn’t an item that I would be able to report on accurately.

Tongue-A-Sauras MIB - Whats interesting about this one is that it pops up loose as often than it does boxed. Its very rare either way. I want to say I’ve seen 4 loose and maybe 5 boxed on eBay in my time.

Astral Moat Monster MIB - I can say I’ve seen maybe 5 of these.

Pumyra MOC - I would say this one is as rare as a Bengali MOC, though slightly less desired (and thus less expensive).

The Stinger MOC - Not all that rare, just ridiculously expensive. I’ve seen 10-15 of these (though those could be same few over and over priced too high to sell). I keep an eye out for this figure MOC because I greatly desire a loose complete one, and opening a beat up carded one is probably the only way to achieve this. I have only seen 2 loose complete ones of these ever, and one of those had “repaired” wings. I’m uncertain if the other one was complete with original wings or not…

And thats my report on Thundercat scarcity for what its worth. Like I said, this is just based on my impressions, not on actual statistical fact.

22

It does. There is a pic of it here on the site:

http://www.thundercatslair.org/toys-main/ljn/ljn-toy-guide/cheetara-8-back/

Besides Tygra got released alone, so Cheetara definately would have done.

and just as a side note, all my discussion in the previous posts are in regard to items never removed from the box or never set up (box can be open) Even if an item is complete with a decent box, I still regard the item as ‘loose’ :wink: Aside from The Stinger, I don’t regard any loose Thundercats LJN toys as super rare as they do appear every now and then…

23

Here’s today’s update 3/2

MoreThundercats items were posted today included a set of vintage thundercats pins. Also listed and gone already were a Lynx-O (no weapon) $20, Captain Shiner $12 (no weapon) *i bought those 2

Still available are

Safari Joe $15
Monkians 10-30
Jackalman 10-30
lion-o 20-80
Nearly complete cat’s lair starting bid $125
lots of new shirts and dvd box sets 10-60
mask, sword of omen and belt BIN 150

I did see a Orange Lion-o complete orange weapons and extra sword, young tygra complete, non movable wily-kit & kat (x2) sell for $65+ as a lot.

Nothing to differnt. if i see something rare I will let you all know.:thumbsup:

24

This is an interesting read! ok, here is my question:

In what order of rarity (not necessarily price) would you place the below three items?

  1. MIB Tongue-A-Saurus
  2. MOC Unpunched Playful Bengali
  3. MOC 8-Back Battery Lion-O with Red hair

Thanks

25

Well i’ll first lay down my personal ‘order of rarity’:

  1. MOC 8-Back Battery Lion-o
  2. MIB Tongue-A-Saurus
  3. Playful MOC bengali

I never took to the Argentinian Thundercats Toys, even though they were fully licensed by Telepictures, the moulds used to manufacture the Playful Thundercats seemed to be very cheap detracting from the overall aesthetic quality.

About Tongue-A-Saurus, i can’t understand either why fans have singled it out as one of the Holy grails since he only appeared in one episode, ‘Time Switch’ for a short while when he chased Snarf and the young Lion-o prior to being caught in a net. To me he doesn’t have anything special.

So generally speaking, i think the list above, judging by the fans’ opinions goes like that:

1)Tongue-A-Saurus
2)8 back Battery Lion-o
3)Playful Bengali

26

I own all three although my bengali is punched.

In order of rariety and price the three are as follows

  1. tounge a saurus
  2. moc playful bengali
  3. moc 8 back liono
27

It has nothing to do with the number of appearances in the show, and everything to do with how rare the piece is in terms of how often one comes up for sale and speculation on how many were made.

Since it came at the end of the line and wasn’t one of the standard figures, it was likely produced in much smaller quantities just like the TW Lion-O, LL Mumm-Ra, and the LS figures.

Those are why those figures are considered the holy grail of the Thundercats collection to (and here’s the key word) “Collectors”. Collectors care little about the appearance of a character in a show, and everything about completing a collection. Harder to find pieces because of the above reasons are why those pieces are considered holy grails to an action figure line.

Hope that clears that up for you Lordore.

28

Yeah, to some degree i agree with this opinion, i am fully aware of the rarity factor among the Thundercats valuable pieces. Besides i am in this game for more than 7 years. On the other hand i always sticked to the philosophy that[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] rarity should be estimated primarily by the factor of quality and above all adhere to subjective terms.
A[/FONT][/SIZE]nd by quality i mean the greatness of each figure and how impressive it looks. For instance an 8-Back Lion-o W/bATTERY stands out to a Playful Bengali or Rainbow Lion-o. For many reasons.

29

Rarity isn’t subjective, and has nothing to do with your interpretation of quality of a figure. It is completely objective and measurable.

You’re looking at it from an affinity for a particular character or figure, when rarity has nothing to do with that.

It only has to do with how often something of a particularly desired condition comes on the market, or are known to exist (other sub factors are if its MOC/MISB and graded).

Look at this link here - of terms for collecting rare coins

Look at the definition of rarity - “The number of specimens extant of any particular numismatic item. This can be the total number of extant specimens or the number of examples in a particular grade and higher. (This is referred to as condition rarity.)”

So I guess you understand all of this, you just aren’t looking at this from a collector’s perspective (although by your own admission you have a rare piece in your, I believe 90 or 95 graded Lion-O). That particular Lion-O is rare, but its because of its graded condition, not because its a Lion-O figure.

30

What I don’t understand is how there have been just a handful of Lasersabers Two pack’s, TW Lion-O, or LL Mumm-ra, or Tongue-A-Saurus that have shown up in the last 10 years. It doesn’t make sense that a company would produce 10-20 each of something…there has to have been more made, why would there be 1 each of the lasersaber’s or 5 each of the others…

31

Well for starters, we’re talking about action figures here, which are treated a lot differently now than they were in the 80s. IMO Not as many collectors back then, so you’ve got to figure only a fraction of these made it into collector’s hands and stayed MIB/MOC (I’m only referencing those because of my own personal interest).

Then you’ve got other variables like various reasons why these were produced in smaller quantities be it that they were near the end of the line, or they weren’t figures in the main line (how ever you want to refer to the figures of the card backs, 7", 8") but instead were two packs or a beast in Tongue-A-Saurus’s case, so those are automatically going to get produced in lower numbers anyways. The LS two packs so far as I know were only ever released in Europe under Rainbow Toys, so that limits production to just one region.

All of these factors combined to really shrink the number of these still left on the market to very very few. I’m sure there are more we don’t know about in private collections. So far a LS Captain Shiner has never turned up, but in all likely hood they were made, and SOMEWHERE some have to be stashed away.

Manny (Manny’sCollectibles) could probably give more details than anyone on this board about them as far as a better guess on production numbers than I could offer, but the above are general reasons why those figures are so scarce.

32

TW Lion-o, LL Mumm-ra, LS Figures and the Stinger lack in one major factor: They were never portrayed in the show, maybe this is why they were never released in quantities, have you ever thought of this facet? LJN due to that might have considered them as a failure since there wasn’t the support of the cartoon counterpart and thus produced in limited numbers..and now WE have come to considered them as Holy Grails…and some are willing to squander away thousands of dollars. Even though RB might had incorporated these special LJN toys into the Series at some point in the future, given there was a Season 3, but this never happened, like in Mad Bubbler’s case whom we all know was an LJN concept. I can’t see the rarity in them since they never existed in the show. Also keep in mind Grune that WE alone, the Collectors define Rarity among these pieces. If LL Mumm-ra for instance, popped up more frequently in the INTERNET , then i am pretty confident it wouldn’t be considered as one of the Holy Grails.
On top of that, if a collector or a prospective one falls into the trap of recklessly and passively buying whatever is out there in the Thundercats market then unfortunately degrades the collection into an LJN museum and showcase. This is why i referred to subjective reasons.

Personally, i have a penchant for Lion-o, so i preferred to focus on this character and his variations over the 3 Series and foreign releases. Otherwise, i would have opted to spend my money and space on other second-tier MOC figures like Slythe or Mongor, which mean nothing to me to own them in pristine condition and AFA class.
Also, i don’t believe by any means, that a Playful Bengali or the Brasilian, Glasslite Tygra compare in every aspect to an LJN Lion-o W/Battery or Mumm-ra. And if WE the long time, hardcore fans have said so, then we mistakenly mislead the new fans. Rarity of course has to do to or OUGHT to with the figure’s overall quality and lasting appeal. You just can’t lump everything together..I hope you catch my drift. If you don’t accept my standpoint towards the collectivity process, that’s fine, besides each one should share his own likes and dislikes but you won’t convince me, simply because you put forward the arguement of the ‘definition of rarity on the dictionary’.

My Lion-o AFA 90 was a personal obsession due to the fact i wanted an AFA Subgraded Figure:90. He is one of the very few Italian releases but this comes second to me.

33

Alot of times i’ve noticed with accessories, vehicles, and weird creatures is people have no clue what they are and are miscatagorized or put into lots which you have to search deep for. I remember when I was putting my original Thundercats collection together I found Mongor’s weapon mixed in a TMNT lot. I found a couple of the laser sabers that way also.

They’re out there you just have to dig, hunt, and search the ends of the earth for them. Alot of thundercats items show up in the U.K. most of the tongue-a-saur’s ive seen at least have

34

Your example is the perfect reply to Grune and generally the Collection quality… What should be considered Holy Grail and not…
I am just commenting on your post lostdwarf and asking: Would that ever happen to Lion-o’s Sword Of Omen? or Mumm-ra’s helmet and sword of Plunn-dar? NO.

And you know why? Because these are profoundly Iconic accessories, directly associated with Lion-o or Mumm-ra and their cartoon image.Everybody knows them.

But who is aware of a nonexistent Thunderwings Lion-o or, as you said, the mis categorized Laser Sabers you incidentally dig up!

35

i found just the sabers no figure and they were loose, for clarification, i had a black one and a blue one

36

Well, the Sabers isn’t too difficult to find loose on e-bay, however i don’t see me ever buying them…

In a nutshell, i like my figures reminding me straight of the cartoon and the actual moments that took place…I’d like to see Lion-o in his ‘Anointment’ variation wearing the crown and his regal coat.

37

Ebay updates -
MOC Snowman - $54.20
MOC Cheetara Single - $66.00
MOC Hachiman - $33.69
MOC Panthro - $160.00

I did not win these, but in sticking with what this post was originally about, how does everyone feel about where these ended? In my opinion they ended a little lower than i would have suspected, particularly the cheetara at $66

38

Again, the rarity of a figure has nothing to do with how many episodes it appears in, but how many of that figure are guessed or known to exist and how frequently they come to market.

Partially true, but not in the sense I think you’re trying to say. You want Lion-O w/ a battery to be considered the rarest piece, but carded samples of him are rather easy to come by (easy, not cheap). That’s why a carded Lion-O 24 back is $300-$400 and a carded TW Lion-O is (guessing) $1500 - $2000. It has everything to do with my explanation above.

This I would agree with you on, because if more popped up, or popped up more frequently, then the supply would start to fill demand more and the price would drop.

If you had a figure line of two figures, and made figure 1 the most awesome action figure out there in every way (best accessories, best figure sculpt, best paint app, perfect height, lots of nifty action features, best articulation, etc) and you made figure 2 one of the shoddiest figures out there, and you made 10000 of figure 1 but only 200 of figure 2, figure 2 would have the higher price point and be considered the holy grail to completion collectors and the one every one of them would be going after (collectors interested in trying to own an entire line of action figures, series of cards, book of stamps, set of coins, etc).

I don’t, but nothing to do with you. It simply isn’t an accurate standpoint on rarity when collecting the overall line. If you value Lion-O and Mumm-Ra above and beyond every character, by all means that is your choice and nobody can convince you otherwise. But, if you have a 8-back Lion-O, a non-graded 8-back Mumm-Ra, and either a non-graded 8-back Cheetara alone or a non-graded LS Bengali all non-graded and figure/packaging condition are even across all of them…you’re going to get more people with higher priced offers coming to you to get you to sell that last figure because an 8-back Cheetara alone or LS Bengali are next to impossible to come by from what we know of how many are out there and/or how many have come up on sale.

39

I am straddling the fence on this issue Grune, hoping we can reach to an agreement. I am with you that since i am or anyone else who is supposed to be a ‘Thundercats Collector’ then some rules apply, like gathering and aiming for the most rare and valuable pieces as they are already rated and regarded by the majority of Thundercats collectors and not only what each one, personally reckons as precious or not. Collection isn’t actually a solitary path… The pleasure of showcasing and boasting, in a good way, your items and being accepted by the Collectors’ community is an important part in the definition of this term.

Still, every Collector should have the freedom to choose and stick to his likes.Its both an objective as well as subjective matter.

The 8-back Lion-o W/Battery was just an example. The same goes for an 8-Back Tygra young W/wilyKat.

About the Glasslite and Playfull versions, sorry but i am adamant in my conviction they are below par.

Also, i am taking you into details now, but one other thing i’ve singled out my Lion-o90 is because even though he is a European release, his head mold and body colors resemble so much to the American LJN counterpart instead of Rainbow’s Lion-o who has the characteristic ‘bulging out the socket’(as i use to say) kind of look at his eyes. And once again i deem the LJN American Lion-o the best representation so far.

indiabluesplit thanks a lot for the e-bay updates but for a future reference it would help a lot if you described a bit further each piece, like Series, cardback, country distributer,condition.

Take care,
Orestes

ps. lostdwarf, i modersted a little bit your thread in order to make it more relevant, hope you don’t mind.Thanks

40

Good stuff fellas. I can see both sides here. Got to remember some of this stuff is insanely rare to find MIB or MOC. with the Laser Sabres being of Italian origin? I tend to stick with the stuff from the show as well.