DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH! Appreciation AND Continuity Order

Where Eagles Dare and The Guns Of Navarone are both excellent - MacLean wrote the screenplay for the former at the same time as writing the novel. Apparently Richard Burton asked him to write a story that he could take his son of about 12 to see in the cinema, and this was the result. The Guns Of Navarone is the only really good MacLean film adaption to which he didn’t also write the screenplay. It takes a few liberties with the book, but it all works in context, so I can’t fault it.

Ice Station Zebra, on the other hand, goes quite some way off course from the book. The book has been described as something a bit like Agatha Christie, a closed-environment murder mystery (which you could also say about some of his other novels, particularly Bear Island and Breakheart Pass); but the film suffers for deviating too far from the book. And I mean way too far. Yes, they’re still on a sub, going to the north pole to find a vital piece of film, but the rest of it is nothing at all the same!

When I used the ‘If it isn’t broke don’t fix it’ metaphor I was meaning in the sense of the Live Action Transformers movies. Those have been massive financial successes for Hasbro. But they are awfully bad movies with a lot of faults. Rather than try and fix the various faults they are just keeping doing the same thing. Just because a movie makes money it doesn’t mean it’s a good movie.

Fair enough. Yes, there’s plenty of crap out there that makes money. Reminds me of something George Takei said about Star Trek when they first started making it - he smelled quality on the show, and was instantly worried that meant the show would fail!

For example look at their 1986 Inhumanoids line. Scientists with hi-tech suits fighting massive creatures from the Earth’s core. Did not do well when it was released. Even though they released 4x 6" heroes figures a couple vehicles, a few creatures and 3x MASSIVE 24" monsters. 2013/2014, films like Pacific Rim and Godzilla have been massive success. This would be a perfect time for them to try and capitalize on the Man vs. Giant monster theme, but they are not. Instead they would rather treat us to another Transformers movie…

Inhumanoids is a show that I’ve heard mentioned a few times without ever having known what it is until you just told me.

Hitchcok made so many good movies. Psycho is still one of the best (if not the best) horror movies made. The second Psycho sequel is very good even though he didn’t direct it. I love ‘The Rear Window’ and ‘Vertigo’. ‘The Birds’ and ‘The 39 Steps’ were also really good. As are the other’s you mentioned although I don’t think I seen all of ‘Dial M for Murder’. I have a book on all his films which shows production photographs and posters etc. I must get it and a few more for the DVD collection.

Actually, Hitcchock is a great example of the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality, because he did remake one of his own films, “The Man Who Knew Too Much”. I’ve never seen the original 1930s black & white version, but the colour version from 1956 with James Stewart is one of his best. Here is a man who was not afraid to say “this didn’t work the first time round, I’m going to go back and remake it, and fix what I did wrong”. A lesson that the rest of Hollywood never learned. They just think, “who wants to remake a flop?” instead of thinking, “why was this a flop? What was done wrong? Can we try again and make it work this time?”

Which brings me back to Star Trek - the whole history of which is littered with second chances! It took two pilots to get the show commissioned, and when they made the second one, Gene Roddenberry looked at what he had done wrong the first time and corrected it in a big way, that second pilot is still one of the very best episodes ever made! And then 15yrs later, when they hit the big screen, the first film, although a moderate financial success, was not viewed with much affection, so when making the second, they looked at what they had done wrong, and fixed it - and the result was Wrath Of Khan! Arguably still the best of the Trek films (and a worthy addition to any film collection in general!).

The Three Investigators books are similar to the Hardy Boys books. They are about three teenage boys in a fictional seaside town in California called Rocky Beach and they run their own investigating firm located in an old caravan in one of the members Uncle’s salvage yard. They ran from the mid 60’s to the late 80’s. I started reading the re-released reprints in the early 90’s. When Hichcok died they referenced it in the books and in that particular book they meet a former detective turned famous mystery writer who the writers use to introduce the books.

Not read the Hardy Boys so can’t comment there!

I must read ‘Ice Station Zebra’ as I like closed in environment books and movies. I love Stephen King’s ‘Misery’.
In humanoids is pretty good. Like Visionaries it was only 13 episodes. about 7 of them are good. The first 5 episodes are on Youtube.
‘The Man Who Knew Too Much’ is brilliant.
It’s a pity George Lucas didn’t have as much devotion and re-do Star Wars Episode 1,2,3.
I can’t really comment on Star Trek as I have never really been much of a fan of the show. Although I did used to watch The Next Generation when it was on.
I have never read any of the Hardy Boys either, I have just always heard The Three Investigators compared to them.

I have almost finished watching Gundam Wing (if you like Anime and robots you should watch it), I just have a few more episodes and the movie to go. Then I can start working through all of DOTE.

Ice Station Zebra is a good’un. I remember how disappointed I was with the film, it was a travesty of one of the most amazing books I had ever read.

Inhumanoids is pretty good. Like Visionaries it was only 13 episodes. about 7 of them are good. The first 5 episodes are on Youtube.

I’ll have a look. I don’t know how much you remember of Visionaries, there’s only three iffy episodes (Feryl Steps Out is a bit schmaltzy, The Trail Of Three Wizards has enough holes in the plot to accommodate all three suns of Prysmos, and Dawn Of The Sun Imps is a bit silly but otherwise the plot holds water). The rest are all pretty good.

‘The Man Who Knew Too Much’ is brilliant.

Both versions? I know the colour one is great, I’ve never seen the black & white one.

It’s a pity George Lucas didn’t have as much devotion and re-do Star Wars Episode 1,2,3.

Well, to be fair, he did say back in the 1970s that you couldn’t get a good film out of the first three. Twenty years later, he proved himself right.

I have almost finished watching Gundam Wing (if you like Anime and robots you should watch it), I just have a few more episodes and the movie to go. Then I can start working through all of DOTE.

Another one I’ve not heard of!

I remember a good bit of Visionaries but I would need to see them all again for specific details. I do recall ‘Horn of Unicorn, Tooth of Dragon’ as being a very good episode. Another one I really liked, I can’t recall the name of it, was one where Cryotek turned evil. It was a good series, I wish I still had the series on DVD.
I just seen the colour James Stewart version.
I don’t buy Lucas excuse at all. The history and characters that are described in the Original Trilogy is nothing like the crap that was the prequel trilogy.

Again, I think it’s on youtube. It was a couple of years ago.

The episode where Cryotek turned evil is called “Sorcery Squared”. For a while, back when I was in this Visionaries group online, we had an RPG going, and I played Cryotek (rather convincingly, it was agreed - partly because there wasn’t much acting required, emotionally he and I are on the same page). When I started, I had never seen that episode, and nobody could believe it!

Returning to one of my “favourite themes”, Visionaries was a show where I worked out the continuity order all by myself (13 episodes, not too much difficulty!). Here it is, with my ratings for each episode:

  1. The Age Of Magic Begins ****
  2. The Dark Hand Of Treachery ***
  3. Quest For The Dragon’s Eye ****
  4. The Price Of Freedom ****
  5. Feryl Steps Out **
  6. The Power Of The Wise ****
  7. Lion Hunt *****
  8. Horn Of Unicorn, Claw Of Dragon *****
  9. The Overthrow Of Merklynn ****
  10. The Trail Of Three Wizards *
  11. Honor Among Thieves ****
  12. Sorcery Squared ****
  13. Dawn Of The Sun Imps ***

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I just seen the colour James Stewart version.
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I’ll have to look up the black & white version at some point.

I don’t buy Lucas excuse at all. The history and characters that are described in the Original Trilogy is nothing like the crap that was the prequel trilogy.

Maybe - but then again, he was asked at the time why it was “episode 4” that he was starting with!

I do believe he had plans for 1,2,3, before A New Hope. I just don’t think what we got in 1,2,3, was his original vision. Over the years I have read that the prequel trilogy was supposed to be mainly focused on the Mace Windu character and various other things. My biggest complaint with the prequels is Anakin’s character and all the political nonsense. Prequel Emo Anakin is not the man Ben describes in A New Hope.
The only good things I can say about the prequels is that Christopher Lee is in them and the seen at the end of three where Ben hands over Luke to Lars and Beru.

Back to DOTE. I watched ‘The Gods Awake’. I always liked that episode. I especially liked the outfit Mandrake wore when he was fighting Sheeba. I always thought that would have been a better main outfit for him in battle and kept the tux for non combat scenes.

I guess you’re right. I’ve only seen the prequels once (and the originals about three times). Hasn’t been for a few years too.

Back to DOTE.

Good idea, that is what the thread was started for, after all!

I watched ‘The Gods Awake’. I always liked that episode. I especially liked the outfit Mandrake wore when he was fighting Sheeba. I always thought that would have been a better main outfit for him in battle and kept the tux for non combat scenes.

DotE had about three or four different animation teams working on the series, and one of them is of a markedly lower quality than the others, Flash & Rick’s hair is the easiest thing to spot with that. “The Gods Awake” is the best episode animated by this weaker team. Normally they didn’t get that many really good episodes to do, but this one slipped through the net!

I too always liked this episode. It’s one of the more memorable ones from the series. It also has a couple of continuity points; it introduces the character Theron, so comes before the Book Of Enigmas “movie”, and also, owing to Kshin’s opinions on Mandrake’s taste, is better served by coming before “The Panther Peril” (in which Kshin loves their evening out).

The last part of the Eniga series seems to have week animation.

Arguably (especially for the statues!), but it’s not made by the really weak animation group that did “The Gods Awake”, or “Cold War” or “A Demon In His Pocket”, et al.

The animation on the Demon (Kronos?) is really bad, especially his shading.

I will have to re-watch Cold War and Demon… I can’t recall the animation in them being to bad but maybe I am being more forgiving on them out of nostalgia. I lliked Cold War when I was young mainly for the fact that it was the first episode I seen the Claw Copter in.

Kronos has a dodgy look, I’ll grant you.

I will have to re-watch Cold War and Demon… I can’t recall the animation in them being to bad but maybe I am being more forgiving on them out of nostalgia. I lliked Cold War when I was young mainly for the fact that it was the first episode I seen the Claw Copter in.

I really mean you can tell a mile off that the animation in them is done by a different team, and is a lot more basic. This team also animated “Return Of The Sky Band”, “Call Of The Eternals”, “The Drowning World”, “The Thunder Lizards Of Ming”, “Suspended Sabotage”, “The Rites Of Zesnan”, “Battleground”, “Doorways Into Darkness” and one or two others.

“Cold War”, as you may have seen elsewhere, I have a very strange and distinct childhood memory of, as both times I tried to record it, the tape got to the end, stopped, and just started rewinding back. I forget exactly where it stopped the first time round, but on the repeat, I remember precisely - Rick was running through the ice caves, and said, “I’ll never give up without a-” - and that was the end of the tape!

The Claw Copter actually makes its first appearance in “A House Divided” - yes, that’s right, The Phantom flies a standard Claw Copter in that episode, not the Skull Copter! Obviously they hadn’t yet customised a copter for him - and hence this episode must come before any that do feature the Skull Copter, which in airdate order, makes its debut in . . . “Cold War”!

As for “Cold War” as an episode, well, it had a lot of potential, but the ending didn’t quite work for me.

I might be getting muddled up but I don’t believe I seen ‘A House Divided’ with most of the other on Saturday mornings. I am pretty sure I didn’t see it until they were showing DOTE after school on BBC1 around the same time they were showing Thundercats as well. I remember I was in Primary 2. I didn’t see the full version until I got the first UK DVD in 2004.

That’s fair enough - I wasn’t trying to correct you before, I was simply listing a continuity point :slight_smile:

Oh no I wasn’t meaning that. I was just meaning looking back I can’t recall seeing it when I seen a lot of the others.

Interesting, because it’s the first episode I committed to tape!

Maybe you went on holiday that week, or missed it for some other reason. I remember missing both parts of “The Mind Warriors” first time round, I was on holiday, probably in Spain (quite possibly also the time I saw Spiral Zone!), and the next episode I saw after “Hall Of Wisdom” was “The Lost Jewels Of Tibet” - which had the potential to be a 2-parter in itself, it was pretty damn big for one episode!

Even more oddly, concerning “The Mind Warriors” - when I finally did see it on the repeats on Going Live a year or so later, I recorded part 1 but missed the start of part 2 (must have been the week the hairdresser came over to give us all our trim). Fortunately, like Thundercats’ “Feliner”, the first part isn’t a major cliffhanger ending.

Also, I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before, but if you’ve ever seen the Story Begins “movie”, it’s the first five episodes edited together . . . except that instead of “A Demon In His Pocket”, they put in third place “The Mind Warriors, part I” - which is at least a little step in the right direction continuity-wise!

It’s possible. I do recall going over to England on holiday in the summer around that time.
Is the Story Begins edited the one that was released here on DVD? If so then yes.
Continuity wise A Demon…did seen to be a little early in the series. But then I do recall Rick and LJ talking to her about how she was finding living in the city compared to the jungle, so it shouldn’t be to far from the first several episodes.

That’ll be it then!

Is the Story Begins edited the one that was released here on DVD? If so then yes.

THE STORY BEGINS that I got on VHS about 5yrs ago consists of
Escape From Mongo
The Creation Of Monitor
The Mind Warriors (part I only)
A House Divided
Bits ‘N’ Chips

With a few bits cut here and there. Edits that I can remember:

From “Escape From Mongo”, Mandrake magicking up an extra 4 imaginary swordships to distract the Ice Robots, and the resulting air battle. It takes away all meaning from Ming’s line about his own forces destroying the palace!
From “The Mind Warriors”, the dinosaur sequence.
From “Bits ‘N’ Chips”, the opening space sequence with Flash & The Phantom. It does mean there’s no explanation as to what they’re doing up there later in the episode!

Continuity wise A Demon…did seen to be a little early in the series. But then I do recall Rick and LJ talking to her about how she was finding living in the city compared to the jungle, so it shouldn’t be to far from the first several episodes.

Absolutely agreed. That conversation does make it an early one, along with Ming’s still focussing his attacks on Dynak (as he does in “The Creation Of Monitor” and “Bits ‘N’ Chips”. I put it at about 7 or 8, so one of the first two (along with “Root Of Evil”) after my set-in-stone “establishing six”.

‘‘From “Bits ‘N’ Chips”, the opening space sequence with Flash & The Phantom. It does mean there’s no explanation as to what they’re doing up there later in the episode!’’

That jogged my memory. Yes, the DVD release from '04 was the same as your VHS. The opening scene with Flash and Phantom is one of the main scenes I remember from DOTE. Not that it is overly memorable but it’s just Flash and Phantom are together and I got both of the action figures together. The episode was also on the same tape I had Roots of Evil and Thundercats- Berbils. At the time of watching the DVD I was very annoyed that, that scene was not included.

I know what you mean. It’s really to set them up as being up there so that they’re on hand at the end when the ship’s fixed to go and blast Ming’s base!

There’s a couple of question marks over that scene though. Mainly to do with The Phantom grabbing that gun from the wing. Seems like the sort of thing he’d use the Power Of Ten Tigers for normally. And why keep a hand weapon on the wing in the first place, instead of in the cocpkit?

That said, the action is pretty cool. As is the whole episode. EVERYONE has their moment in this, apart from Kshin.

Well it is set in the future/space so I always liked to think of the gun like those machine guns on military helicopters. Except in this case the gun could be fired from the controls in the cokpit or detached for hand use in an emergency. Also it is a pretty big ship so I would like to think that they had various supplies in the ship if they had to make a crash landing somewhere and equipment for various missions like weapons etc. The ten tigers power wouldn’t really have done much use as he only seemed to use that from my memory for strength and strength wouldn’t do them much use fighting against starfighters.

Did you ever see the Phantom 2040 cartoon series.