That’s where I kind of split from everyone. I think not doing what the original did was a fantastic idea, just not if they wanted to sell a ton of toys. I’m the person that would rather have a quality show with bad/no toys than one that’s just okay and completely based around merchandise, a.k.a. the OS. In fact, I don’t think I would be a ThunderCats fan if it wasn’t for the NS.
I Barely ever check in with the NS side of the forum cause in all honesty I think the NS was terrible, handled by all the wrong people, did a lot of damage to the Thundercats franchise, and the sooner everyone forgets about it the better. So if I offend anyone, my apologies 
Anyhoo, with regards to the OS; If a series is made for the sole purpose of selling toys, rest assured, if the series its self and the characters suck, no toys will be sold, no matter how cool the toys are / look. So that should put to rest if the OS as a series was great or not.
With the NS; the series sucked, the main character was made out to be a puss, and the toys sucked as well. Add to that the major reasons it flopped: A show placed in an adult time slot with a toy line targeting children. Then the hiatus, and the show comes back at the time slot it should have been in since the beginning, only now the kids can’t pick up the show at episode 9 or whatever it was because even as an adult it was filled with inconsistencies (Its Thundercats, not Ghost in the Shell. It does not need to be that complicated!).
But I believe that even if they had put it at the right time slot from the beginning, it still would have flopped, because of NS Lion-O. NS Lion-O was very weak for the “main” character. Why as a child would I look up to and “want to be” a character that learns a cool trick, only to forget it completely for the next 3-4 episodes? If I learn Sight Beyond Sight, you best believe I am using that every episode.
Watching the NS to me was like pulling teeth. You would sit there watching with baited breathe waiting for something cool to happen, and it never would. It was always a let down. The only bone they threw us was in one episode where Lion-O jumps backwards like in the OS opener, and everyone and their mother went crazy both here and on the WS forum, because for a second, we got to see OS Lion-O. That right there should show you what everyone wanted.
The guys in charge of the NS, had NO IDEA what everyone wanted, which is essential when trying to sell a product or idea to the masses.
Edit: I originally called the NS an atrocity but I changed it to terrible as I feel atrocity isn’t fair to those who were involved with the art and music of the NS, which were excellent.
Just because the show wasn’t what some diehard OS fans wanted doesn’t mean it’s not what anyone wanted. I don’t think an exact reboot using the exact same cheap gimmicks and repetitiveness as the OS would do so well today either. While I don’t believe the NS did a good job marketing to its target audience, I’m certain kids today don’t want all the action figures like in the 80s/90s nor do they want a show that just repeats itself and the main characters always win. I believe some people just want to complain about any reboot no matter what it happened to be like. I don’t want to put the creators on a high horse, but they tried it and it didn’t work. No one is doing anything by taking a figurative crap on their work.
And also, the time slot/hiatus ordeal is not any of the show’s staff’s fault. That’s up to the network. If you want to blame anyone for the confusion, blame them. It wasn’t the first time Cartoon Network did the same thing nor was it the last. If anything, it’s a habit of theirs.
Finally, people say all the time that “characters forgot their abilities a few episodes later” in the NS. I’m not denying that, but it’s hard to say the OS didn’t do the same. I’d be lying if I said it didn’t, or at least something similar. With Mumm-Ra’s laughably shoddy disguises being nearly 50% of the reasons the cats were in trouble, it’s like they never learned anything. Not only that, but they even refuse to believe that Mumm-Ra is behind it several times. That is actually worse than not necessarily using a new ability after learning it.
Would you agree that very few Star Wars fans would want Luke Skywalker to now be a wuss and barely resemble the original character in a Star Wars IV reboot? Sure, change a few things for modernization, but don’t change the attributes that made the character so great.
I agree and disagree. Much more modern cartoons have certain elements that always show up in each episode. The kids look forward to (count on) seeing them every episode, such as when a character transforms into their super powered self, or whatever. I don’t think they care if it is the same stock footage every time. These are kids we’re talking about. They aren’t watching this and then switching over to Darker then Black. But if you want an example, GoKaiger (the latest Japanese sentai show) uses stock footage every episode for morphing etc… And we consider Japanese entertainment to be on the cutting edge when it comes to this type of stuff.
I take it you haven’t walked into a Toys R Us lately and seen just how much shelf space is dedicated to Avengers? And just wait till Iron Man 3 comes out. The front shelf display is going to be massive. So yes, they want action figures, its just that they want them for “cool” characters.
The art and music direction of the NS was fantastic and deserve my highest praise. The writing and character direction however was shoddy at best.
I agree.
As I said earlier, its Thundercats, not Ghost in the Shell or Darker then Black. Your criticizing the OS using an adults perspective on the world, kind of like how an older adult would criticize a WWE wrestling match. Your looking too much into it and that type of entertainment requires a certain “release of belief” in order for it to work. As a child, that’s not necessary as their imaginations are still very vivid and they don’t put a cartoon series (much less one from the 80s) under a microscope.
I find it to be an ok show to watch but as you said at the end of your post is that if i pick the show part it actually really sucks… I like the ideas with story etc but overall i’m not that happy with this show at all.
[QUOTE=AlexofThundera;89563
With the NS; the series sucked, the main character was made out to be a puss, and the toys sucked as well. Add to that the major reasons it flopped[/QUOTE]
Really agree with this. My biggest problem was the bad characters they gave the Thundercats, Lion-O especially. The character they gave him would probably work in a generic anime but not for some ferocious brave leader of a band of skilled warriors.
I know there was a lot of elements against the NS but I think the bad characterization played as big a part of turning the audience away as the terrible Bandai toys.
I will admit the NS had some really interesting ideas, story wise, but I think the vast majority of these ideas would have worked better in an OS universe and in a second season of the series: like the destruction of Cats Lair, a traitor in the ranks etc.
You know, I’ve been stating the producers didn’t really do much wrong yet Michael Jelenic is ruining Teen Titans as we speak.
I do have to agree with Hammy on this. The NS might not have been everyone’s cup of tea. That much I think everyone can agree on. I liked it, and I’ll also respect the opinions of those who didn’t. Speaking only for myself, though, I’ll take NS over OS any time.
And I DO think it’s kind of disingenuous to say kids’ shows should only be viewed on that level, especially seeing as how there have been plenty of shows ostensibly made for kids that adults can also enjoy, and which have gone on to become enduring pop culture icons. I’m thinking of stuff like Rocky & Bullwinkle, The Flintstones and Johnny Quest. More recent shows like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and Avatar: The Last Airbender are recent additions to this trend. I might not have been in the demographic the OS was aimed at. As a teenager, I just found it insipid and repetitive. And very few kids my age in my hometown weren’t all that seriously into it either (Unless they were stoners. A lot of kids I knew at that age seemed to enjoy the show best that way. And in college, I would always hear of it as being one among the best shows to get high to), and falling short of the epic show I thought it could have been. Once I discovered Robotech, I gravitated towards that and dropped TCats like a hot potato, as it was more the kind of show I was looking for.
But getting back to Hammy’s earlier point, I can’t say anything about Michael Jelenic’s passion or lack thereof for TCats, as I don’t remember hearing him say anything about the show one way or the other. But I do agree with him that CN is a network that seems to put revenues from toy sales ahead of good ratings or show quality. It’s just happened too many times with other shows to be a coincidence to the point where one can positively conclude it being a trend. If you notice, a lot of CN’s shows don’t really last that long, having a run of 2-3 years at best. Unless of course, it’s something like Star Wars: The Clone Wars which has immunity because of some pre-existing deal with an outside company like Lucasfilm. And that show only ended its run shortly after Disney bought out Star Wars. So that only proves my point.
So I would have to say Hammy’s on to something here. Whether or not the people behind the show were responsible for the NS’ demise is up for debate. But I do feel that CN’s business practices directly led to its undoing.
Hopefully after a few years’ rest, we’ll get another ThunderCats show with some people behind it who really do care about it, and on a network that will give it more of a chance like Nickelodeon or The Hub.
I agree with you on that one.
I grew up on the OS. It was and has always been my favorite cartoon. And I watch a LOT of cartoons.
I liked the NS. But I think, more than anything (except maybe CN’s lack of any kind of marketing after the premiere), it was the writing that failed the show. The base ideas and over-arching plot were good. The animation and designs were beautiful. It’s the day to day parts that failed. It’s the individual episodes. They lacked cohesion and consistency. They tried too hard to make each episode self contained, when they should’ve made it (mostly) one long narrative.
I think, with the right writers, it could’ve been the next Avatar TLA.
Though I do believe Hammy is right. CN had a LOT to do with it not doing well too. From what Dan Norton has said the folks at WB tried pretty freaking hard to keep the show going. They just didn’t have anyone willing to fund it.
I agree with Balgus82…As a fan of the OS…i think the individual episodes failed tremendously. Ive mentioned it before, but ill say it again…Paper people!!! really??..just terrible. There were few episodes that I really liked…mainly the ones that tied OS and NS…I loved that Driller episode, Ratilla and the flashback episode with Leo…too many weak individual episodes…
Yep I hated the Paper folders. A lot of the stand alone episodes were very weak.
But I still think the 2nd/3rd episode with the Fish Pirates was one of the absolute worst episodes of the full series.
I kinda wish that Tab Murphy had been the head writer instead of Jelenic. Most of the best episodes (IMO) were written by him.
Tab Murphy was the best writer. I can’t agree more to that. If they would have stuck to him and maybe two or three other writers below him then it would have been incredible.
Tab Murphy did write some impressive episodes during the show’s run.
I do agree that the writing is really what did the series in but I feel it was an all-encompasing problem, not just the day-to-day aspects.
Myself, I would have preferred J.M. DeMatteis over Mike or Tab as head writer. The likes of Paul Giacoppo though…not a chance. Never liked Paul’s work and wouldn’t have even entertained the thought of bringing him on board for Thundercats, Young Justice or any other series.
I always felt like the paper folders were “inspired” by Konan from Naruto much like Ramlak Rising was “inspired” by Moby Dick and Star Wars. I do believe the biggest problem the reboot had (and this does tie into the writing aspects) was way too much theme borrowing and not enough actual Thundercats.
I do agree that many of the stand alone episodes were very weak but I found most of the arc’s to be very weak as well. For me, “Into the Astral Plane” and “Between Brothers” were some of the most God-awful written episodes of the entire series followed closely by “What Lies Above.”
The Trials arc felt very out of sync to me as well. Then again, two different people took reigns writing it which might explain a lot.
I find I liked the second portion much better than the first but that probably has to do with the fact that Will Friedle didn’t use the episode to beat Lion-O with a sock full of oranges like most of the writers tended to do.
Totally agree, that was one of my main problems with the NS.
The other being the terrible origin storyline.
Yeah, more and more I see comments on places like Youtube and facebook saying the reboot was TINO - Thundercats In Name Only.
I never really felt that there was an origin story for the Cats in the NS. I mean, the pilot just ran with the idea that the Cats were already established as the dominant species of Third Earth and it wasn’t until many episodes later that we learned how the Cats and other animals came to inhabit Third Earth. We still know nothing of their time prior to serving Mumm-Ra.
As far as individual origin storylines go, the only one that even slightly appealed to me was the Kittens. Panthro’s was just too chopped up, scattered and not thought out at all (case in point - the Crew planning on having his missing tail be a running gag but never bothering to incorporate the gag), Cheetara, like Lion-O, never really got one, and Tygra’s was - to me - just a poorly written attempt to excuse his horrid behavior and abuse while trying to draw undue sympathy for the character.
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner here folks. 
And I hope to hell the people that worked on the NS read these forums because this is it right here.
Why in the bloody hell would you create dumb new characters like in Ramlak Rising when the creators of the OS had already created a plethora of fun and imaginative characters for you to simply port over into the NS??? Nobody wanted to see the Fishmen from Ramlak Rising, you know who they wanted to see? The freaking Berserkers!
Remember how crazy with anticipation everyone went when we saw the Driller in the previews for that episode? And what did they do? They killed him right off the bat. These are the guys in charge of today’s cartoons? I feel sorry for today’s kids man… :rolleyes:
Now, I am not saying they couldn’t introduce us to new characters along the way, like The Petalers which was probably one of the very best episodes written along with The Duelist, but the bottom line is there was no where near enough “Thundercats” in this NS. It was more like Thundercats characters reenacting scenes from other shows we had already seen.
The NS simply never felt like Thundercats to me except for a few moments here and there. Most of the time I felt like they were damaging the characters, especially Panthro. My g0d did they handle that terribly with those go go gadget arms :duh: How you take such a great character and completely ruin him is beyond me. To know that there are kids out there whose only known knowledge of Panthro is that he was a clumsy overgrown buffoon with stretchy arms sucks. They don’t know the kick ass Panthro from the OS.
Yeah I posted over 40 different themes found in the reboot in another thread.
I think what went wrong on the creative level is that Norton, Jelenic and crew wanted the NS to be completely seperate from the OS in every way outside of character names.
They flat out said they were removing “all the things Thundercat fans take for granted” which in their minds seems to have been everything that had to do with Thundercats. I mean, the Code of Thundera was removed, the moral/life lessons were removed, the epic themes for each individual Thundercat was removed, the unity/familial structure was removed, the positive role model aspect was removed, the threat of villians was removed. Even the term Thundercats was all but removed. They were referred to simply as Cats more than they were Thundercats.
You make a very good point about characters like the Driller. I remember reading a post by Dan Norton on his DA page that there was potential plans to reveal the Conqurdor to really be Safari Joe…
Yeah, Panthro was a tragedy. The strecthy arms were probably one of the dumbest ideas ever and frankly, whoever pitched it should have been taken out behind a toolshed and worked over with two-feet of garden hose for about half a day. Worse still though was turning Panthro into darn near a walking coward.
I felt the same woe for Cheetara. After the Crew comments about her, I had a bad feeling she was going to get some pretty lousy treatment but I never imagined it would be as bad as it was.
Watching the series and noting the way the female characters were handled, I still wonder to this day more times than I care to count if Jelenic, Norton, and the rest aren’t just a bunch of misogynists.