Hey everyone, just wondering with random Thundercats prototypes showing up here and there. How rare are they? And what’s their background regarding the Thundercats line aside from them being photographed for catalogs. Any info on these would be awesome, thanks!
They are pretty rare still. In recent years the people that have made them and held onto them are starting to sell them off so they show up more oftten than they used to. Some stuff is harder to find than others. The never produced stuff like Bubbler are the hardest to find, while test shots I think show up more often. There was a time a few years ago where there were a couple of clay protos that people had (I wanted to get one but was so afraid it would break in transit). Often times reputable dealers get ahold of them, so you know what your getting is real cause of a person’s reputation (like my Lynx-o I got from Peter Lerose and was part of Andrew Mccabes collection). I also have a set of plaster molds for Cruncher (and I haven;t seen molds elsewear). This is not to say that they don’t exist, im basing this solely on ebay (as I haven’t tried to seek out people that worked on the line). If you get a chance to pick one up and it is something you find interesting go for it, because they are hard to come by for the most part, and there are so many different types, mock-ups, 2ups, resin, hand painted, clay models, etc. I hope this helps and isnt really just a long pointless ramble. Forum member wthompson is very knowledgable when it comes to prototypes and the steps used to create a final product.
About the Hard Copies in resin cast (like the ones that I shown recently) I can just affirm that a certain number has been done for each character.
Some characters got only 5/6 hard copies to around 10/12 for others (apparently the maximum).
The question is now: how many in total survived?
There were many more than 6-10 hardcopies made. Think of all the international toy fairs, catalogs, presentations and exhibitions. Minor character HCs aren’t rare. Moulds, wax/clay sculpts and whole unproduced characters are
I got this information directly from an old Ljn employee and no more were made for each character, 12 around was the max.
My information is from the manager of LJN toys. Rubber moulds were made so an abundance of resin pieces were cast. Think of all the counteies TCs were shown in. I know of two hard copies were two versions were ever produced
My infos are coming directly from the Ljn person who did each Hard Copies and she has not reason to lie, she did around 12 Hard copies “max” for each character and most of time it was only 6/7 for a character. (it was no more for the Silver Berbil Belle for example)
About the other countries, we got the market distributions later compared to USA/Canada.
We surely got Sample Tests, I have no doubt about that, but I suspect hard copies in each country and for proof, most of time pictures inside our catalogs were the same ones than inside the Ljn USA Catalogs.
Hard Copies are pre-production prototypes, realized before the mass production as you know and when the first Sample Tests appear, the Hard copies disappear, logic… and because the delay was around 1 year in europe, we got some Sample Tests probably for our Toyshows but surely not Hard Copies because the mass production was already did in USA.
If I am wrong in my logic, explain me the goal for Ljn to do new Hard Copies for Europe if the Mass Production was already done at this time, no sens.
Tokyo, I know Mary and I know many other model makers for LJN. And I know the production process from drawing, sculpt, mould, HC and factory
Thanks Matt
I don’t think the question was on just hardcopies, the general question was about prototypes and really all of the answers are quite fine.
I’ve collected prototypes for 16 years and have seen / owned a lot of neat things.
To answer the question hopefully on what they are/were used for , If you’re talking about hardcopy prototypes you would have a process of a cast tooling piece, paint-masters or salesman sample for Toy Fair, working models also cast in resin with internal workings. So far the TC line is interesting as there are those presented here with Metal pins and some that are completely glued together with some internal workings for articulation.
Aside from the photography, the painted hardcopies used as paint masters (usually with a color swab for some toy lines ) would go to the factory and not come back. I’ve had actual paint masters from Hasbro from china from the sample floor themselves, I actually had a shot at getting a metal production mold for another line years ago.
Going back to tooling pieces, these are very cool and as you know there are figures from different lines that can be cast 1:1 or even 2:1 or even 4:1 in terms of size. There are a number of 2-up painted pieces for Superheroes such as Captain America that show up from time to time and they are neat for people that collect that line.
So, beside photos hardcopies have many uses. The bench shots or first shots are also used as photography samples and play a similar role for TC and also other lines.
Think what you want, it is not a problem for me.
I know the truth and it is the only thing important for me.
whats a hard copy?.. I dont really kno much about prototypes
Hi,
A “hard copy” is just what the name implies - it’s a hard copy of a figure, but not of the standard figure. It’s actually a copy of the original sculpting and it is the product of a silicone mold. They’re called hard copies because they are made of a polyurethane that is harder and usually weighs quite a bit more than the normal plastic used on production figures. The urethane is generally comprised of three parts: a catalyst, a hardener and a pigment. Any color can be added, but only after the catalyst and hardener have been mixed together will the urethane solidify. All hard copies are hand cast, hand painted, and hand assembled by the people involved in the design process. Each part must be cleaned up and sanded at the joints so that they can be prepped for assembly. Holes must be drilled in each part because the limbs and head are held on with metal pins. Because dowel pins are used to hold the limbs on, the figure can easily be taken apart. Hard copies do not have holes in the feet or copyright markings on the legs as these additions come during the steel mold making stage. Hard copies are used as approval samples and, more importantly, the unpainted ones serve as tooling aids for creating the steel molds. Painted hard copies serve as paint masters so the production folks will know what part gets painted a certain color, or what plastic base color to use. Because there is no shrinkage involved in casting a hard copy, it is dimensionally identical to the original wax sculpting. A slight bit of detail may be lost, however, between the hard copy and original due to the reproduction process.
Regarding earlier remarks as to what is more rare, it’s up to the collector to decide what they consider rare. Artwork, original sculptings, and material leading up to the middle design processes are all neat and interesting to someone like myself but to others perhaps not so much. Hardcopies are just one part of the overall picture.
I’m really not sure what hardcopies you are guys are speaking about… but from my information there were only about 5 HCs of each character. I have never heard of 10 or more being produced.
at times, the same Figure models traveled to shows such as Toy Fair and catalog shoots.. and even commercial shoots. In fact, many times a model maker from LJN was available on site during the commercial shoots just in case a toy broke. It became common practice during the time.
This is the latest information I have… and trust me its current. I am writing this response sitting in a hotel room next to three former LJN employees who worked directly on the line. 
( Yes, I am prodding them about the interview).
Best-
Jordan
Lots of interesting information here. So some of the resin cast prototypes were likely to the same as the ones from the catalogs? This might be slightly off topic but whatever happened to the Hollywood heroes Thundercats auction?
You would need really high resolution shots to have a good comparison of the figures and match them to be the “exact” figures in the catalogs. Since some are paint masters and some are salesman samples used at Toy Fairs it would be difficult to spot. The paint markings or details would have to be exact.