God I hope not. And really, as big as they made Addicus and Kaynar I doubt they’ll make Vutureman that tiny.
Yeah, I was starting to really feel the new (early series) tank, hoverboards, the new mutants, and some of the new additions, when they completely screw it up turning Panthro into Plastic Man and that new monsterous tank…
The arms as his super strength would have fit perfectly and been absolutely classic…
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Yeah, horrible scene… they were all facing death… siding with Lion O would have given them a fighting chance, siding with Tygra and surrendering was literally dooming them all, until the Pantrho Deus Ex Machina. Saying and doing what she did in that moment of battle was the worst possible distraction for young Lion O.
You can’t be too hard on Cheetara. What was she supposed to do? Potentially sacrifice Tygra to continue a losing battle? If they somehow miraculously beat the Mutants she wouldn’t be able to live with herself, not to mention letting another Thundercat die just isn’t something a Thundercat should do.
Whoever wrote the episode really should have set the scenario so that the Kittens left to get reinforcements instead of just leaving. Cutting out the scene where Panthro’s new arms go haywire would have given the writer time to set this up and help make the new arms seem a little less ridiculous. If they did that then Lion-O or Cheetara buying time in that situation would have worked and the characters wouldn’t be put in a situation where the fandom looks down on them.
Your right, with that kind of set up, it would have worked a lot better - buying time until reinforcements. Except, in what we see, there ARE no reinforcements. Theres two kids and a pet. As far as Lion-O knows, Panthr-O is completely out of action. There is no one to call. Surrendering will signify death to their quest and his species. As a leader, touch choices, yadda yadda - either they all die with a surrender, or just Tygra dies. Plus, I completely agree with the posters that don’t believe he had given up on Tygra yet. Stand and fight to save him and what not.
The important thing to remember is that if it weren’t for Lion-O being a brat they wouldn’t have been in that situation. Before attempting to free the lizards both Tygra and Cheetara made it clear that they didn’t approve and advised against fighting. Lion-O charged into battle without back-up like an idiot putting himself and the sword in immediate danger.
I know a good portion of the fandom are upset with Cheetara for surrendering, but Lion-O is just as much to blame if not more so.
I’m curious to see which character gets the blame in the next episode.
In this regard Lion-O had the right idea you need to show those lizards support if you want their help in the future. Based on the available evidence at the time he had nothing to worry about going at it by himself as Kaynar and Addicus where hiding. I think allot of this Discussion about tactics will be taken care of once Lion-O goes through his trials. Right now he is in charge but has not proven himself. so the others are second guessing him. This leads to dissension in the ranks and is where their biggest problem lies in their Battles. They are not fighting with a single purpose.
I will say Lion-O is peeved about the personal situations. but I don’t think it is affecting his judgement as much as the others. His head is in the game. The others need to fall in line and stop second guessing him.
I agree, but the lizards they freed earlier in the episode were immediately captured by the army again. Are they just supposed to constantly follow the lizards they have freed to make sure they get to safety? Getting the lizards on their side is going to take a larger scale show of goodwill than freeing half a dozen lizard squads.
If it were me I’d probably get some of the other animal armies on my side before even bothering with the one army that is aligned with the enemy. Just makes sense, seeing as how the lizards seem to gravitate toward power.
I will say Lion-O is peeved about the personal situations. but I don’t think it is affecting his judgement as much as the others. His head is in the game. The others need to fall in line and stop second guessing him.
Not affecting his judgement? Lion-O took their opinion on pushing further against the lizard armies and immediately dismissed it as the new couple teaming up on him. He let his bitterness get the best of him and foolishly went in without the others.
A good leader needs to be capable of listening to those around him as well as giving orders. Lion-O just isn’t a consistent leader yet. There have been a few episodes where he has shown promise, but then there are other episodes where he does something really stupid.
He woudln’t have been going in alone if they had supported their leader … he had no reason to expect a fight that they coudln’t handle if they had all gone in together, and they had no reason not to follow his orders. Lion-O might have been rash in going in without them after their blatant disregard but the situation should never have come to that. Either support him and do your job or leave. Its quite simple. Don’t half-ass it.
Remember he is King his word is final they don’t live in a democracy. If your King says we fight then we fight you need to show your support to the crown first then to your family especially in times like these.
As for freeing the Lizards. They did say allot of the lizard forces disbanded after the last major battle now what the need is to start sewing support for the Thundercats and word of mouth from 12 returning Warriors can spread fast through a population.
On another note, given the position they were discovered in I don’t think Kaynar or Addicus have much leeway with any armed force. How is freeing a Psychopathic Killer any way of getting a rational civilizations army to fallow him. I can hear the conversation now… “You joining the army? Yeah I hear they got a general that would sacrifice us just for the laughs. Id follow him in a heart beat. Oh and the other general was recently captured by a bunch of puny bird people and almost put to death. Cool where do I sign up?”
As we saw in the opening sequence their normal encounter with the lizard squads was to set a trap in order to catch them off guard. Once the trap is sprung two of them fight while Tygra keeps the high ground to cover them. They wouldn’t do this if the lizards weren’t potentially dangerous. Charging in like that was the wrong call, whether they were going to follow him down or not.
Either support him and do your job or leave. Its quite simple. Don’t half-ass it.
So the other Thundercats have no say whatsoever? That may be how it was when Thundera was prosperous and under the rule of Claudus, but that isn’t how it works anymore. Things have changed dramatically for them and sticking to something like that just wouldn’t work for them or for a show. A group of soldiers mindlessly doing whatever a 14 year old says just isn’t something worth watching.
I don’t know. Their respective races might be more inclined to join Mumm-Ra if one of their own is in a position of authority, but I don’t think even their races like Kaynar and Addicus. 
If they don’t have to listen to him, then what is the point of him being King? :rolleyes: It is their job to offer opinions and options, but at the end of the day, his commands are what matters.
They should listen to him to a certain point. When he is acting more immature than the Kittens they need to step in and do something before he gets someone killed. He ignored the advice of a Cleric and his brother who has had military tactics training. Granted that same Cleric threw down her weapon in the middle of a fight…
I also question how using the Kittens as bait is fine, but later another lizard squad approaches and it is suddenly too dangerous for them to be there. :eek:
I love “New Alliances” because a lot of what happens with the characters is morally neutral and no one is completely “right” or “wrong.”
Lion-O is right to stand up for the recaptured Lizards and working without the knowledge of new generals he made a solid command decision based on what knowledge he had available.
Cheetarah’s excuse of “Jaga told me to” is a bit of a cop out. Yes he asked her to look after Lion-O but she still lead him on and isn’t taking responsibility for hurting him. He shouldn’t say he’s fine with things if he isn’t, but he’s trying to be a good brother and put on a good face for Tygra.
Tygra is still insubordinate and letting his prejudices blind him to the bigger picture, but he still sees the Lizards as the people that killed his father so his apathy is understandable.
The stand of is the best yet, both sides are both right and wrong for different reasons. Cheetarah did give up way too easily, but taking the chance of sacrificing Tygra, even if she didn’t care about him is cold. Lion-O was probably betting that Tygra could find a way out of it, but he’s still betting with his brother’s life.
Like I said, great episode.
Agreed. The questionable writing and bizarre changes aside the episode was a great introduction for the new villains. I’m pretty psyched to see them fight the Mutants every week. Hopefully Grune escapes the Astral Plane and comes back to help even the odds. Seeing all the baddies team up against the Thundercats would be really, really cool.
Lion-O is brash and bold and his compassion to help the lizards is admirable. He has a ways to go but he is learning. His current attitude with both Cheetara and Tygra is hindering but hopefully he learns from this mistake of his.
Tygra’s remaining dislike of the lizards and Cheetara’s behavior is questionable. In a sense with Jaga gone and possibly the entire group of Clerics, Cheetara is now the defacto leader of the Clerics, unless there are straggling clerics who survived elsewhere in Third Earth.
Lion-O is king now, topped off with a “Jaga seal of approval”, so even though he is bratty, he is showing leadership as well. But despite that, it was good to see, even though questionable, Cheetara’s and Tygra’s current attitudes with Lion-O as well of Lion-O with them in this testing time.
Things are layed out in the open, they will have to be brutally honest with each other continuing from this point if they ever hope to finally come to terms with everything and hopefully emerge together as the complete Thundercats team with the remaining members.
And Panthro was cold to him initially but in “New Alliances”, his words of encouragement to Lion-O seems to show Panthro does have hope and growing support to Lion-O. However, with a uneasy relationship with both his brother and Cheetara, and if it continues down that negative road things won’t be looking good for the entire team…
How is it a cop out? Please tell me what you were expecting her reasons to be? Why would a royal body guard keep track of the heir to the throne? This should be obvious. Cheetara never said anything about having romantic interest in Lion-O. She was close to him, but so what? Boys and girls to occasionally touch without having a sexual motive. Yeap, it happens. His little speech confirms that he’s got some growing to do. Her relationship with Tygra should change very little in the way of group dynamics. She is still a Cleric. She is still tasked with helping see him to his rightful place as king.
So many like to talk about how she wronged him, but very few want to talk about his speech by the tank. Lion-O basically told her everything she’s done for him is invalidated, and that she can no longer support and guide him. All because she doesn’t want to be his girlfriend. By his logic, Cheetara and Lion-O were never real friends.
Lion-O didn’t care to ask her before investing in their imaginary romance. I think Cheetara deserves a bit more respect than that. He has no right to be angry, because he never asked her. He chose to parade around like it was all in the bag, instead of asking Cheetara about her feelings. As for him showing Tygra respect, I think that’s a load of bull. Where was all that respect when He thought Cheetara was interested in him, hmmm? He had no problem throwing her into Tygra’s face when he thought she was into him.
Lion-O is right, but it’s a dumb move. The lizards and the cats have been at war for ages. It takes time to relieve some of that tension. Tygra and Cheetara were right to question letting them go.
I don’t understand some of the harsher critisims of Tygra. He just lost his home and father because of the tension between the cats and the lizards. For all we know, not enough cats remain for the species to recover. If you lost all your loved ones and were faced with extinction, you’d be so trusting? Besides, Tygra is a bit more logical than Lion-O. Lion-O thinks more with his heart. He needs someone like Tygra around. It’s a nice check and balance.
“Between Brothers” She knows full well about Lion-O’s crush and suggests she knew for awhile and still led him on. She has taken no responsibility for that whatsoever, Lion-O says he can’t understand how he misread her signals because he didn’t. This isn’t to say Lion-O shouldn’t have been more open himself but when you have a crush on someone you don’t just blurt it out to them like an idiot, you try to make sure they feel the same way before you confess your feelings and Cheetarah’s actions until that had implied mutual attraction.
A simple apology and recognition of her action would have been enough, but no. She blames a dead man.
She could not lead him on, because he never asked. Now if she told him that she was interested and then went after Tygra, I would agree. If he would have asked, there would have been no opportunity for him to misread her. Lion-O’s feelings are not her responsibility. Seeing as she seems to be content with her choice, I think it’s safe to say he misread her.
Lion-O was sure about her feelings though. That’s one of the reason he taunted Tygra about them. He was wrong though, and now he feels stupid. All could have been avoided if he bothered to ask her how she felt. And now he wants to **** and moan because she chose another.
She owes him no apology. She has been there for him since day one. If she apologizes, I will be disappointing . He owes her one though.
They’ve always had his back and they’ve always supported him. To my recollection they’ve never just stood by and watched while he charged into a battle alone. there was no blatant disregard here.
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Yes, but kings have advisors. Kings didn’t and don’t know everything so they had advisors to help guide them. Remember, Lion-O is still young, so he needs all the guidance he can get. He can be a bit headstrong…just like any other teenager.
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I’m gonna have to re-watch that episode because I totally missed the part that you’re talking about. Didn’t she tell Tygra that she didn’t know she was causing problems between them in episode 13? I don’t think she owes him any sort of apology, and I don’t understand why people keep saying that she’s using Jaga as an excuse. All she did was tell him the truth.
THIS! Besides their not doing Lion-O any justice by just agreeing with everything he says. Technically they are duty bound to follow Lion-O, but they should follow him because he’s right. How will he learn if no one ever fights him?