ThunderCats Episode 14 "New Alliances" OFFICIAL TALKBACK THREAD

Cartoons ThunderCats (2011)
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I like the original 80’s series but in a way I find it unfair to keep drawing comparisons of the new with the original. But it seems it’s getting tough not to do it…the thing is, while the new series has it positives it also has its negatives, same could apply to the original.

in terms of storyline, the new series seems to have a better grasp over the original, but really the quest for these “stones” seems tacked on, when it really should have just been the book of omens and the struggling search and survival of any other Thundercat before mutants/Mumm-Ra makes them extinct.

Mumm-Ra seems to have been introduced WAY too early overall. Way too early. I understand he is a major character and no Thundercat story is complete without him, but it would have been more interesting to see him as the alternate “New Alliances” the storyline could have gone as a reflection to OS “Unholy alliance” when the mutants had trouble killing off the cats for good, and “oh hey! a new darker and more unpredictable threat” in the form of Mumm-Ra. Of course, making new Mumm-Ra much more threating and a force to be reckoned with. Like how they made Kaynar and Addicus just much more evil. I mean come on, am I the only person who got a stomach ache when new Mumm-ra told Slythe to find those guys because “crimes even vile to me…” Seriously!? Your suppossed to be Mumm-Ra, the ever evil living Bat…ppppPERSON?! With magical powers even!
So simply put, the writers just made him a ninny.

In terms of character designs and art styles, I think its on par with both incarnations, granted I prefer new Lion-O’s teenage and good athletic style as oppossed to his old “horsenecked steroid jacked up” 80’s version, but overlooking that I still like his old 80’s incarnation anyway! It’s like why didn’t the Old series literally keep Lion-O as a kid? There was no point to tack on his “oh sleep capsule malfunction” bit and Jaga’s warning of "aging still does occur where it was immediately contradicted with the wily kittens still kids when they wake up! And speaking of Lion-O, he’s like my favorite dude in the series, but new Lion-O was really just awesome in Song of the Petalars, The Drifter, with that big owl monster guy… I forget his name, and the first two episodes. Since The Owl guy, he’s been totally written as he completely forgot what he learned from the Drifter and Emrich! And possibly largely due to this stupid love triangle.

Okay, yea I understand he has issues with his brother, but seriously, was it that necessary to write Tygra as his “adopted brother” ? why not as “fellow royal noble kid that did more responsible stuff than Lion-O” person? Heck, possibly don’t even have Claudus as King, could have been General and Lion-O a noble that way, they could have made the whole inheritance of the sword of omens much more interesting if it remained as Jaga as the original Sword of Omens wielder/ Lord whatever and the best two candidates physically and mentally met between Tygra and Lion-O. Heck how about a starting plot twister, have Tygra with the sword first but since the whole compassion over how to deal with the lizards and such, the sword eventually is in better capable hands with Lion-O and Tygra struggling to understand. Man, I don’t know…

Love Triangle right now is pointless and stupid, was rushed and really not that all in good light since it’s screwing up the team. The writers could have found another more understandable way to keep the team edgy with each other without the need for “which smurf is going to get the only smurfette” mentality. I like Cheetara, it’s not her fault, I blame the writers for how they are making her. And with her surrendering? Lame thing to make her do… Wasn’t she a psychic too in the original series? Make her do some psychic-y thing and give Kaynar a distant headache or something! Criminy! she runs superfast, make her do a dash run kick hadouken or something…man!

And Tygra, man he complained, clashed and overall was being whiney with Lion-o, Lion-O the same way to him too! but since Tygra seems like a mellow guy now,… due to what he wanted and got. And he didn’t mention anything about the brotherly resolve in the previous episode, neither of them! what the heck Lion-O and Tygra?! why not a “hey bro, about the other day in the astral plane…” or “hey, those lizards, you think they are good? okay bro I am right behind you no more arguments” or “hey bro lets not let a girl break our relationship” something!

Nope what we get is a lame romantic moment which WilyKat best put it, " I think I am gonna cough up a hairball."

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am I the only person who got a stomach ache when new Mumm-ra told Slythe to find those guys because “crimes even vile to me…” Seriously!? Your suppossed to be Mumm-Ra, the ever evil living Bat…ppppPERSON?! With magical powers even!

Mumm-Ra is a galactic conqueror though, he’s more about organized evil. evil that ACCOMPLISHES something. While the Mutants are more of a chaotic evil with no focus. Mumm-Ra is evil but he at least has standards and goals.

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His whole “galactic overlord” bit is pretty lame. Leave that role for Mon-Star of Silverhawks since that suited him better. Again, a comparison to the old series, but they nailed it from the get go as this dead guy in a pyramid out in the middle of nowhere. Gave the sense of “who the heck is this guy and what is really his deal against the Thundercats”.

Reworking him as a galactic overlord was just dumb, really doesn’t look well overall with Mumm-Ra. Again, leave that to Mon-Star, or heck one of the Lunatiks.Seriously, it looked goofy. Everyone was wearing sweet techno pants whereas you have an 10 ft tall bat guy wearing bandage pajamas over there standing at the control deck.

If there was to be any reworking, have him like Jaga’s old personal enemy that got sent to the astral prison or something. Anything with Jaga. Kind of like a reworking of the old Jaga/ Grune Idea of the OS.

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Mon-Starr wasn’t a galactic overlord, he was just a Mob Boss.

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Overall I liked this episode.

Things I didn’t like:
I’m on the bandwagon for not being in love with Panthro’s arms, and ludicrous super tank.

The hostage scene/love triangle was weird…was Tygra smiling?

Why were the dog prison guards wearing weird S&M outfits? What goes on in that prison?

I was hoping to see Lion-Os compassion rewarded faster, like in the pilot episode. Now I don’t know if the lizards are truly sick of fighting or are just wimps lol.

Things I liked:
seeing the other animals city-states. I want to see more of the birds, I like the executioners hood, it was creepy but somehow funny at the same time. I was impressed at the writing, allowing references to the death penalty, cannibalism, murder etc. Pretty dark stuff for a kids show. I love how aggressive and crazy the new villains are. They’re a real threat that need to be taken down!

Berbils! gimme dem berbils!

other thoughts

I wonder if turning to degenerate lunatics to do your bidding will fail for mum-ra as it should be expected to. Slythe will have a lot on his hands just trying to maintain those two maniacs who don’t play by anyone’s rules.

I’m really intrigued that the lizards have lost motivation in pursuing the cats once Thundera was sacked. But like some other things, the rationale isn’t clear. Do they feel retribution is complete and no further hostility is needed? Are they bored? Are they happy to have some land and trinkets? Are Lion-O’s ambushes alone causing desertion? I guess its a mix of these things. They sure seem content to just follow orders, whether coming from Slythe or Lion-O. In the pilot it was established there was a long running rivalry between lizards and cats, with little mention of the other species. I wonder how the writers are going to recruit new threats against the cats.

I’m really enjoying the show, can’t wait for another episode!

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HAHAHAHA I didn’t even notice how S&M those outfits look by they TOTALLY do!!

As far as Tygra’s smile I think it was more of a relieved/touched smile that Cheetara would care enough to not risk him, it was a dark situation in which perhaps Tygra wasn’t sure what was going to happen with that blade pressed so close to his neck. Cheetara PROBABLY could have made it to him with her speed however she probably had doubts she could get him free before a fatal blow occurred, Tygra was unarmed, bound and fairly close to that scythe I probably would have preferred not to anger two psychos I had no experience with too. I probably would have taken my chances with surrendering too, despite it probably being a foolish choice.

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It seems the lizards are just doing what needs to be done to survive, hence serving Mumm-Ra. There’s good and bad in everyone, and good chances are that many of the lizards enjoyed the mass genocide of the cats such as Slythe motivated by their mistreatment by the cats. Perhaps the cats had an easier time enslaving the lizards, seeing how the other animals such as the birds and elephants are in remote locations and perhaps tougher to handle. The dogs, not sure, since we only have the flashback to fall on and the recent Kaynar intro.

But Addicus, for a cruel brute, was quite quick to notice and call out Cheetara on her attacks being “disciplined” and “using the same attack patterns” so he definitely is not stupid. Kaynar however seems in it purely for the thrill of killing cats and may be the most dangerous of the three seeing how quickly he handled Tygra, and considering greatly his unstable mentality. Slythe, I wouldn’t doubt, he does seem to have a sadistic and cruel side to rival Addicus and Kaynar, and cunning yet he obviously knows who’s the bigger bad. But he did like Grune’s plan on betraying Mumm-Ra and quick to act on it.

Man, I wish Grune was not trapped in the astral plane…would have been great to see how Grune would have handled things, then again this was a good chance to bring the trio together again.

Anyway, if Slythe, Kaynar, and Addicus actually do manage to combine their efforts as well as they did against the cats, they could quite possibly do much harm to Mumm-Ra, the possibility is there.

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Agreed. Really there is no other reason for him to smile in that situation.I mean, he was still inches away from getting his head lobbed off. It’s nice to know someone will stick by you, even when it looks like its over ( especially after your brother just turned his back on you). From a battle standpoint it’s problematic, but I can see why she would want to do that. Don’t agree with it, but I can understand.

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It was still their responsibilty to help create peace and not promote hate. It was more Cladus fault than Tygra. Tygra just wanted to be in charge and followed Cladus lead. Cladus was extremely flawed as a king. He din’t promote progression and often times belittled his son. Often time praising Tygra while doing it. He was the true cause behind the rivalry and the tension behind the brother. The cheetara incident is only a part of the bad feeling between the two. In short Cladus sucked as ruler and in turn Tygra sucks as a leader for using his methods. As far as strategy goes he is more experienced but that is only due to age.

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I think he meant it would have suited him better rather than Mumm-Ra.

Overall an excellent episode. Just hate extendable feature of the arms, rest is all good.

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Yup those are definitely Tygra and Claudus’ fatal flaws, Lion-O’s got some too and goodness are they glossed over when some people compare him to Tygra. But I’ll point both of theirs out anyhow for this episode… Tygra was pretty dismissive and cold in allowing the lizards to be recaptured and will have to learn compassion and sympathy even for those he doesn’t think are deserving but at least he came through for his brother instead of going back to the berbil villiage to cuddle with Cheetara. I kinda expected him to subtly rub Cheetara a little bit in Lion-O’s face and I was pleasantly surprised at his maturity, I would have thought it bad form and hoped Cheetara was there to hit Tygra over the head with her staff if he did. I think Lion-O is behaving like a spoiled child over the couple’s relationship (not that I blame him he’s 17), BUT I say that he’s a brat after his little outburst considering Lion-O goaded Tygra over what he thought was Cheetara’s romantic interest in him and was wrong and NOW he wants to pout about it, if anything I’d be a little embarassed I just assumed without asking. Its a lot like teasing someone with your ice cream cone when they didn’t get one and then crying when in the middle of your taunt when it falls to the grass.
Tygra sucks as a leader? I don’t really think it’s a fair assessment when Tygra has not yet been given a chance to lead, he could possibly do very well leading in a certain situation we don’t know that yet because we hadn’t seen Tygra lead but I definitely don’t think that means he’s meant to rule because he isn’t, its obvious why Lion-O is the leader because he’s compassionate and fair and can see beyond what things are for present (sight beyond sight indeed:D) I think Tygra seems to be growing, maybe slowly but he IS growing and I don’t see how anyone can still not see progression especially after New Alliances, so he didn’t agree with Lion-O big deal, he certainly didn’t poke and prod and goad him like he used to. Give Tygra a little credit.

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That. Different situations would requiere different leadership styles. A good leader under one situation could turn a really bad one in another situation.

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Hey, I realize I’m a bit late here. Been kind of a one-man assembly team here, as I spent much of the weekend putting together both my new computer desk and Ocelli’s chest of drawers that we got from Ikea Friday. Also last night was our 20th anniversary. Yay! But I still managed to find time to watch the episode and share my thoughts on it.

BTW, between Thundercats, Green Lantern, Young Justice, The Aquabats, and later The Avengers and Ultimate Spider-Man, Saturday Mornings are back, baby!:smiley:

[ul]
[li]I think I called it early-on that the kittens’ hoverboards (no longer called “Space Boards,” apparently) were built by the Berbils. I’m guessing they’ll be building a lot more gadgets in the future, culminating with Cats’ Lair as in the OS.[/li][li]Loved both Addicus and Kaynar! I for one am vary happy that the Mutants are no longer joke villains and can hold their own against the Cats. Like others said, Addicus definitely has a sociopathic streak, and Kaynar gives off a distinctive Joker/Hannibal Lecter vibe, which I love. He may very well be my favorite villain thus far. Also as others have pointed out, I liked how they used their natural traits while fighting (monkey feet, sense of smell, etc.)[/li][li]BTW, looks like the showrunners reached into our heads once again in terms of aspects from our story. The bird people who were about to execute Addicus looked very similar to what we imagined the Avians would look like.[/li][li]I can see where people would have had problems with Cheetara’s actions in this episode. More or less, the general sentiment is “Cheetara wouldn’t do that.” But then you have to remember that this isn’t the OS Cheetara. This is a new reinterpretation of that character. On reflection, I kind of liked it, both from a character and dramatic standpoint. I like that these characters have flaws, unlike the OS where I’ve often said they were standard one-dimensional hero types. And I like how the love triangle thing is being handled in that it has tangible repercussions for all the characters as we can see here. And I think that my assessment of the quality of this re-imagining’s being up there with Battlestar Galactica still holds.[/li][li]Looks like Panthro’s got a unfair reach advantage!:wink: Kind of reminds me of Jax a little bit now. (Jax Briggs from Mortal Kombat. Not Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy!)[/li][li]And I thought the Thundertank made an entrance before! Considering the radical upgrades and redesign, I’m thinking of referring to it as the Thundertank Mark II. It certainly looks like it’ll function as a mobile base of operations, and that the original Thundertank will separate for active combat and recon duty; sort of like the Alpha and Beta veritech fighters from Robotech’s New Generation/Mospeada segment. Or if you want a real-life analogy, like a pickup truck separating from a trailer. Though I’m thinking this’ll be an intermediary phase until we get to Cats’ Lair. As for those who are worried now that the toys will no longer be accurate, I’m sure Bandai’s got something up their sleeve, and that they’ll market the larger half as a separate vehicle to link-up to the existing Thundertank toy.[/li][/ul]
So all in all, very good episode after a long hiatus. I’m especially glad it’s back to fill the hole The Walking Dead has left after its season finale. :slight_smile:

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This, with extras on the bold.Now that someone mentions it, I am surprised about how nonchalant Tygra is being about it. Hey, Lion-O had no problem dishing it out when he thought he won, so yea.
Like you said, we all know Tygra isn’t meant to lead. If he ever gets the chance, he’d probably end up seeing how unfit he truly is. Assuming they chose to focus on the core of why Lion-O is a better leader. Which is undoubtedly the compassion thing. Though it could be a very eye opening experience for Tygra.
LOL, who hasn’t been both of the little kids at one time or another? Depending on what kind of kid you were, you either sit down and cry, or pick it back up .

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Finally watched it… my opinions.

What I liked:

  • Lion-o being compassionate, that was nice.
  • The new mutants, they’re great.
  • I also liked that Kenyar and Addicus kept their weapons from the OS, only that more threatening. Makes me think Bengali and Pumyrra will get a revamped version of their old weapond as well.
  • No “whiskers”.

What I didn’t like:

  • Lion-o whining and complaining over Cheetara and Tygra.
  • Lion-o willing to sacrifice his brother (yes, he was about to do it). So he can be compassionate to the lizards but not to his brother. And to do that out of jealousy, envy and/or resentment was low, really low. If I were Tygra, I’d have told him something like "And you were worried I’d betray you (in the Astral Plane)?
  • Panthro’s new arms… not liking them one bit.
  • The new Thudnertank.

Curious facts I observed:

  • Are the birdmen who held Addicus supposed to be Vultureman’s clan?
  • Kenyar’s captors were dogs… interesting dogs aren’t a united society like the cats.
  • Would have been more interesting if Kenyar’s underground captors were the molemen.
  • As always, Tygra got the hard hit of the episode.
  • For the first time in the series, Tygra got tied with his own whip. Wonder if this was the first of many, considering he got a lot of that in the OS lol

The episode was good, not great, and still too childish to me, with the new thundertank and the extendable arms, and the Berbils resembling My little Pony.

We don’t know. As I said before, sometimes situations take the best of us. Like Eric in “Dungeons and Dragons”; he had to lead the group once, and he did well. Tygra might think one way, but when in a determinate situation, he could consider another PoV.

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Yeah. After a weekend of contemplating the episode, I like everything except Panthro’s arms. That was the most WTF moment I can remember experiencing from a cartoon, in a long while. I’ll reserve judgement on the tank for now, as it’s design was so “busy” that I couldn’t really wrap my head around it. LOL. All in all though, lots to like. :smiley:

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He is considered a criminal in what we assume is his own society. We saw Thundarian criminals in the pilot episode, we just never saw a prison. If anything he was being treated pretty humanely for a serial killer, whereas Addicus was given the death penalty.

“you should thank me for killing those people” pretty sure that came straight out of Charles Manson’s mouth in an interview. I wonder if that was intentional on the writers part.

I noticed during the final fight, the hover platform Slithe (slythe?) is using disappears once the fight starts.

I would be a terrible writer for a show like this. I would have just had Panthro roll in out of nowhere, squishing the three generals unknowingly, pop the hatch and be like ‘did I miss anything?’
I would need new villains every week lol

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I don’t think we can say the dogs aren’t a united society yet. All we’ve seen of them is that they captured a dangerous killer and were sending him to solitary confinement.

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Okay, I’ve re watched this episode a number of times, and I still believe that Lion-O wasn’t going to sacrifice Tygra, and everyone claiming so isn’t paying enough attention to details. Lion-O and Tygra went through a major bonding event in the previous episode. Lion-O avoids conflict with Tygra when he lies about how he’s feeling, and he never tells Tygra even after he admits it to Cheetara. Tygra seems pretty much clueless about what’s going on with his brother. Not once does Lion-O butt heads with Tygra in this episode; his conflict lies with Cheetara. The most Lion-O does is to Tygra directly is express disappointment when Tygra doesn’t want to help save the lizards and tell him and Cheetara to let him handle it alone, which doesn’t tell Tygra much. And most of all, when Tygra does get captured, Lion-O looks visibly worried before he tells Slithe he’s not backing down.

I don’t remember Claudus getting this much backlash when he refused the Sword of Omens to save Panthro, which was a similar situation. Lion-O was just trying to intimidate Slithe with that statement, and I strongly believe he was forming a plan to save Tygra before Cheetara gave up. Anyone who says he was acting like a brat and willing to sacrifice his brother is completely ignoring all the signs that are pointing to otherwise. Yes, Lion-O whined and moped for a couple of scenes, but he never lets Tygra know why, he never gets into a heated argument with Tygra, and it should be freaking obvious that despite being bothered by him having Cheetara, Lion-O’s issue isn’t with his brother but with Cheetara.

Lion-O avoids talking to Tygra for most of the episode because he’s sore, but also because he doesn’t want to destroy the bond they just strengthened. If Lion-O actually did whine to Tygra about taking Cheetara, I would understand calling him childish and immature, but he never does that to Tygra. Lion-O does it to Cheetara because his beef is with her misleading him and finding out she was assigned to him. It’s not just about Cheetara not being his girlfriend or about his brother winning again, it’s about Lion-O being angry at himself and feeling like he’s alone again with no one to back him up, because he thinks the person who supported his vision the most was just doing her job. He has to reevaluate his relationship with Cheetara because what he thought he knew about her isn’t completely true, which means he can’t feel as close to her as he used to. Because Lion-O has to reevaluate Cheetara’s motives, he is going to have a hard time telling if she’s being biased when she sides with Tygra.

So far Cheetara has supported Lion-O and his “big picture” vision up to this point, said he was special, and suddenly now that she and Tygra are together, he sees her lack of support at a crucial time as her siding with Tygra and his point of view. This combined with the knowledge that Jaga assigned her to him makes Lion-O question her motives and what she really believes in. It’s not that big of s tretch to understand why Lion-O is acting the way he is.

Now if Cheetara had been the one held hostage, I might believe that Lion-O would be willing to sacrifice her, but only barely. There is even far less of a chance that Lion-O would sacrifice Tygra at this point, and I think everyone is taking that line in a completely wrong way. So to reiterate, Lion-O’s not angry just because he didn’t get the girl, he’s angry that what he thought he knew about the girl was wrong and because he feels he can’t trust her.

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Actually, not to be picky, but monkians orignal weapon was the spiked ball on chain, and jackleman’s as far as I could tell ranged from a club to an axe (fair enough it was an axe kaynar had, tho u saw slithe with an axe more often in the OS I think)
Be nice if the weapons got a bit more ‘standardised’ tho, I mean Obviously the SoO is the ultimate weapon (kinda) but cheetara’s new staff has loads of abilities, whilst the bolo whip and numchucks are yet to show any real powers. I can only hope that during the story arc they get empowered somehow to have some of their potency from the OS.