Thoughts on this suggestion? :)

Hi guys,

I was just wondering what you guys all think of the idea suggested by Omicron of EOT.net in this thread here: http://www.thundercatslair.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2015 ? :slight_smile:

Personally I think it sounds like a good idea and something that (time permitting - bearing in mind that I have a hell of a lot of TCats-related stuff on my plate with the Episode Guide and still-incomplete Comic Section) I personally would enjoy being a part of if my help was needed. At the risk of sounding like an egotist, my only reservation about such a project would be that it could take away from pre-existing projects such as Purrsia’s dictionary and (something of, as you’d expect, particular concern to me) our own ThunderCats Encyclopedia… :slight_smile:

So, I was just wondering what the thoughts of you guys are on this subject? As I say, I’m slightly in two minds although I do fancy the idea of taking part in such a project - please can you LMK what you all think? Many thanks! :slight_smile:

Take care, and hope to speak soon! :slight_smile:

Hello.

I already responded at EOT but it bears repeating here. As I told Omicron there, I don’t mind this project at all and wouldn’t mind taking part (as it is true, I got a lot on my plate too but hell, what’s one more heaping scoop of something else? lol)
He did already wonder about the Encyclopedia but I don’t see any reason that and my dictionary can’t stick around and still be resources fans turn to. The attraction of the wiki thing is, ideally the three most-active tcats sites atm could launch it and maintain it (that being TCL, EOT and me). And we could all reference it from our own sites (for instance, I’d probably cross-ref it in the dictionary section of my page), as an additional resource for fans, and of course, the wiki page would also link back to us. But the best part is other fans could add to it, filling in gaps and details we may miss or just not have time to put in.
I for one have an appearance-count for the characters I’d like to add to it. Linked to all three sites, people might actually see it and make the research it took worthwhile.

Downside of wiki, of course, are morons who put up false info on purpose which is why some of us would have to check it periodically and weed out the bad info or attempts and vandalism.

In short, I’m for it.

I’d definately be for something like this :slight_smile:

Fan maintained Wiki’s, unlike Wikipedia itself, are always a great source of information maintained very well, so you have people checking for inaccurate information or vandalism. I was planning to build a He-Man wiki a while ago, but it ultimately got denied for some reason.

So, sounds like a good idea to me! :slight_smile:

Ok here’s my suggestion for a domain, which by the way is available…www.thundercatswiki.com as well as www.thundercatswikipedia.com I may or may not have a lot to contribute unless of course it is toy related but I would definitely be up for something like this. The toys section even though is not finished I feel that I can have time to wrok on something like this even if its something as far as cleaning up jobs. So as far as it goes for me…2 thumbs up!!!

It certainly seems most folks are all for it.

However I’m not entirely sure what is to be gained by it? (I don’t just mean for us but the fan community in general)

I think effort is best spent adding brand new things to the Thundercats community rather than repeating what is already there. It’s definately an important area and a very useful resource for fans.

However, in all honesty I don’t see the point in it myself when we already have the excellent Encyclopedia that folks worked very hard on over the last year or so and Purrsia has her dictionary pages.

I’d be interested to hear what Kyle says on this, seeing as the Encyclopedia area is pretty much his ā€˜domain’

I’d also hope folks will be honest and ask themselves if they really have the time to work on such a mammoth task as well.

Well those are my thoughts as an outsider (outsider as in not working on this section within our site) I know I won’t have time to work on this myself.

Also be cool to hear Manny’s thoughts as well.

[B]EDIT: Come to think of it, it might be cool to have a mini meeting this sunday to discuss things in ā€˜real’ time. I think we can quickly gets everyones full thoughts and opinions as well as a vote on it. MannyF and I plan on talking on Skype from:

11pm UK time
3pm PST
6pm EST

If folks are free it be cool to catch up then with everyone. What do you all say?[/B]

Chris here…

Many thanks for the excellent responses, everybody! :slight_smile:

I definitely think this idea has a lot of positives like I say, the reservations I have are all the same as Neil’s. So, I think it’d be a good idea to discuss this in ā€œreal timeā€ as Neil suggests - besides which, I think it’d be fun to have another team ā€œget-togetherā€, seems like ages since the last one! :slight_smile:

As it stands, that time would be absolutely fine for me - I’ll do my best to be there! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

I think effort is best spent adding brand new things to the Thundercats community rather than repeating what is already there. It’s definately an important area and a very useful resource for fans.

No disrespect, Neil, but if that’s true and we all thought that, new fan sites would rarely pop up. Most, you have to admit, at least run the standard info but then again, most find their own unique twist adding more or extra info than the pages did before them and surely every one has their own presentation and style. Plus, part of the allure of this project is the joint effort. Just as this site has come farther in a shorter time through teamwork, so would the wiki. Not only that, but just as this site has tried to acquisition other pages and consolidate info in an effort to have everything it can in one central location, that’s what this wiki will do: Centralize the stuff fans want to know most, in a format that’s a quick and easy reference and that they can add to should some detail be missing or inaccurate; things they can’t always do on our sites, despite our best efforts.

I honestly don’t think it’ll negate any one site’s existance (or section of any one site) because people will still have their preferences and habits. If I did think that way, I’d have folded when this site came along :lol: Part of the fun of your own page is doing things your own way, and the Encyclopedia will still be great as your vision of how that information should be presented.

The thing about the wiki is, we can get it started and maintain it, but any fan can contribute as well. It’s another way to add something interactive to our community and not only pool together our knowlege but that of the many other fans. If it gets a rep for being well taken care of and accurate, it’ll be a great one-stop resource for certain things - mainly as a fic writer I find it attractive, rather than having to look up a bunch of different sites to find the one that has that detail I’m looking for.

Basically, we’re going to have to decide what we want this wiki to include…is it just going to be a basic overview with details on eps and characters? That’s what I inititially thought it was going to be, as Omicron put it, like a fan-made and maintained Tcats ā€˜bible’ since there isn’t one to scarf up.
And as I said, we can still cross-reference ourselves and other sites for increased traffic.

For instance, you guys are thinking of including sound clips on your ep guide. Or just for sound clips in general, whatever, we could say on Vultureman’s wiki profile to see TCL.org for sound clips of his voice and then link to it, rather than putting the sound clip on the wiki page. Stuff like that. Likewise, we promote the wiki by linking to it in key places on our sites. I’m thinking of it as a place where the minds of some of the most enthusiastic fans meet - best of all on neutral, fresh ground - to create an interactive hub of vital information that can grow and change as much as the online community wants it to. Some of the basics might be a repeat, but I’m sure we can come up with that something special or added details to set it apart and make it also worth visiting.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes or be redundant either. But at the same time, this should be no more threatening than any new fan site or concept coming out of the woodwork. Only difference is, it’ll likely be coming from those of us that already have sites or projects going so indeed time devotion should be considered.

As for the meeting, I’m uncertain what’s in store this weekend. Hubby and I have been doing work on the side for a cousin, prepping houses to be bought or rented (which means a lot of cleaning and painting) so we might be very busy come the weekend. If I’m around and I remember, I’ll try to be there. But don’t wait for me :wink:

But a ā€˜new’ fan site is just that, NEW

What is being proposed I feel is like having similar site content twice. It would be like me re-doing the Comics section, writing my own reviews on each comic. I think my opinion on them would probably be just as valid as Chris’, but it would be pointless having 2 people cover the same content.

However if everyone on the team likes this idea, then I would definately support it and help where I can (though it would be very limited help)

My only major concern about starting such a huge project like this, would be content added to the main site drying up because folks are busy elsewhere :frowning:

If you read on the rest of my reply, while new fan sites are new they DO contain redundant information as the sites before them. It’s really only in their presentation and the different takes on the write-ups that they differ so fans find and revisit those that suit their tastes. Indeed, no one ep guide is more valid than another, or comic guide, or whatever. True enough. And yet, fan site after fan site still does their own take and spin on it, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

For instance, this site and mine both offer the French Encyclopedia, scanned comics, and episode guides. Based on your philosophy and simply because my page is older, for example, you all shouldn’t have bothered? Or maybe I shouldn’t have because there were certainly fan sites out before I came around and started making a page. A waste of time? I don’t think so at all. You had your reasons for making this site despite the existance of perfectly good ones already in existance and to me, this wiki is no different. It’s neither trying to best or take away from what’s already been done, but simply offer a different avenue to present some of the information.

There’s also three different active fan message boards for tcats which could also be considered redundant, but each offers its own flavor and has its own purpose beyond the surface intent of ā€˜let’s talk about Thundercats’ even if all three have discussed near-identicle topics at times. And all three do well enough.

I wasn’t invisioning a copy/paste of each site’s basic info into the wiki, but rather have it be another tool and option out there for all the fans and who better to put it together and maintain it besides us? Plus, again, I think we will all benefit from extra traffic generated by all the cross-linking that can happen.
Keeping our individual sites and features/write-ups on them is our way of controlling the tone, depth and level of accuracy we prefer which is part of why I think existing, active sites resisted merging here and most likely the reason you all launched this rather than joining up and helping some existing page back when you started. That’s fair enough. However, this wiki could be one way to realize part of that dream and go beyond just including us site-masters and allow anyone in the fanbase to influence this hub of information. In short, it can be where we all merge and have a say.

That’s all I’m saying :slight_smile:

What happen to my post? I didn’t say anything disrespectful.

That isn’t my philosophy and never has been. If EOT.net opened up a Encyclopedia section I’d welcome it. Someone elses take on a subject would be redreshing to see and I’d definately utlilize it. Back when Celesta was on the team she made some good points about a style guide and getting things accurate within the Thundercats mythology. For this I used other resources such as your site so I’m not prejudice against other sites creating similiar content to us! I say bring it on!

What I am saying and I am worried about is the same work being done twice by the same people. I don’t care if this sounds selfish, but I’d sooner our members work to improve the existing Encyclopedia on our site than start a fresh project leaving the current one in limbo.

I never said the project was ā€˜a waste of time’!

Once again I’m not against the basis of the idea. It definately will be a cool thing for EOT to do as it’s about time they put some content up. However from the point of view of TCL’s involvment, I still feel it’s taking resources away from TCL. I’m afraid your looking at my comments from an outsiders point of view Purrsia, because I’ve never debunked the idea in general. My comments/opinions are purely based on TCL’s involvment in the said profect and that’s it.

Which I agree with and have never disputed. The only comment I did make was that it would be cool to have the community under one roof, so folks don’t have to post on 3-4 different boards. That’s just an obvious observation and isn’t meaning to say the TCL forum is any better than the EOT or Return to Thundera forums.

At the end of the day I have no authority over the matter seeing as I don’t work on the Cartoon section. It’s down to my colleagues who work on said section who should have final say on the decision.

I haven’t done any editing of posts. Perhaps it didn’t post properly to the forum? Can you repost?

So I think Neil makes some excellent points. To me, despite having such a strong team on this site we are still far away from being finished with the content that we want to have up on our site. Our time is at a premium, and thats understandable. It is very hard for me to get help on my section because everybody has real life to look after, then their own section, then where possible to help out other team members.

I feel that to do a wiki right you need to spend time and effort on it, time that we don’t have a lot of.

My feeling is that this teams efforts are better spent making our content and site the best it can be, and then at a later stage making our content and ourselves available to improving the wikipedia pages. There is still fundamental site content and projects for our site that are in the cooker for additions and updates, I personally couldn’t deal with taking on something as extensive as the wiki proposed.

I also have concerns about whether the wiki would in fact drive more traffic through this site, or would result in shorter site visits as soon as we direct visitors to the wiki. Sound selfish? Maybe but thats not how that is meant. For someone to see my content they need to explore the cartoon section and drill down into my area. I already feel like my section is a bit buried (don’t worry guys I deal with this … LOL) so if people are zipping off to the wiki before they get to see my animation art section I’d be kinda disappointed.

I do have a sense of ownership about this site and as much as I can value the vision and the altruistic nature of a harmonious wiki, I have also seen them be chaotic time traps for people.

In short I think its a good idea but not the right time.

My 2 cents.

By the way I love to see the passion displayed in conversations like these, nice to have this team board jumping with discussion again.

Mark

Manny - sorry, didn’t see your post either. Perhaps it didn’t go through as suggested?

Neil - sorry if I offended you. What I was getting out of your first posts was a larger concern about repeating content when now I see the larger point you were driving at. Thanks for the clarification and fair enough. But I will say, EOT does have actual content, it’s just presented within the invision board…where do you think queenie has been putting up her comic scans among other things? :wink: Trust me, they work just as hard as anyone else but perhaps they have different priorities than our sites do. Nothing wrong with that.

Mark - I appreciate your comments, especially about wanting people to actually take the time to check out your own hard work. It’s why I put the blocks on direct linking that I do, so people aren’t just direct linking files and images all day instead of actually visiting the site. Cross-referencing across sites may have some risks, but there’s some benefits too. And maybe we don’t have to link the wiki on our sites anywhere but a links section, but have the wiki linking back to us when appropriate (eg a section on the wiki about animation art would have in its links sections ones pointing to fan sites that elaborated on that, such as the section on this site, etc). That would be, as far as linking out to the wiki from here, up to TCL of course, where, how and how often to do that. Different ideas tossed out there are always subject to personal preferences and debate :slight_smile:

General comments - The wiki would be work, and wouldn’t happen overnight. Sites, in my experience, are never finished…seems like there’s always something to add or new depths to take the same old material. Possibilities are endless.

It would be something that was worked on like anything else over time. As much as everyone talks about time, trust me I know how it goes. I manage my own site, help mod EOT, help run the fandom awards when it’s time, and have now offered to help out here when and where I can. I also take part in Voltron fandom in almost an equal level of involvement. That in addition to the typical real life mundania we all have to deal with. And I’m still willing to do this, and I’m rolling the wiki idea around in Voltron fandom too. Half the reason I take on all these projects is because I want to get the information out there, packaged in as many ways as possible - doing what I can to help move the process along. My page might not be everyone’s bag, but I can branch out I figure, and help offer some of my help or knowledge to other sites & projects. I work like a webmaster but think like a fan.

I know the work that goes into a site. But honestly, if I may be honest here, I think sometimes folks take it too seriously. These are just fan sites about a cartoon. Over-analyzing the impact of a new project in certain ways seems odd to me, but of course people are allowed their opinions. If folks don’t have time for it, that’s cool and understandable. Not implying that since I think I can make some time for it, anyone here is obligated. We all have different lives, priorities and levels of time we can dedicate to such trivial pursuits in the grand scheme of life.
Although I think with fan input being so easily done on a wiki, it’ll be easier than it seems once launched and it catches on. It’s not like going it alone.
Either way, the tcats wiki will probably be toyed with, and even if few or nobody from TCL wants to take a big part in it, you can always pop by and edit and add like anyone else can as it goes along. Definitely the joy of wiki. So I don’t think anyone’s saying you have to jump in right this instant or be left out forever.

I’m thinking, just put up a skeletal start and let fan interest and input direct it from there. As a fan, and not a webmistress, I know I’d love to have a central reference-like resource with the quick (and hopefully accurate) lowdown along with relevent outside links at a glance. Plus it’s something to be added to on the fly, so there’s no waiting for webmasters to update, finish write ups, make corrections, or be disappointed when a page gets abandoned or hits a snag. It’s on the shoulders of no one person so it could, feasibly, outlast us all.

At any rate, so far people are really responding well to the Voltron wiki idea. I guess I’m laid back and don’t mind putting in some work into something uncertain…lord knows I put in some sweat on sections of my site over the years that flopped and I ultimately had to wipe the slate clean. It happens. The interest isn’t there you expected or whatever and it’s more trouble to maintain than it is to just consider x hours of your life wasted and move on. I’ll let folks know if things go well with the Voltron one and if any methods seem successful on that front. It’s still early days there so let it be the guinea pig!

Also, sorry if my tone’s coming off here as pushy or rude. I don’t mean that at all but sometimes it’s hard, as one might know, to express yourself on the internet and have the intentions be clear. Just having a hearty discussion with y’all and it’s good. It gives a lot to think about.

Thanks for ā€˜listening’ to me, as it were :wink:

Okkaay… That thread took some reading lol.

As expressed by others, I feel this would be a good idea. My only concern would be wether we would be produce something that we would be proud to be associated with, without taking focus from our site.

As you can all probably tell, from my side of things, time is non existant any more :(. Any time I get to contribute to the TCL will be channeled towards the Encyclopedia (it really has been tooo long since I added new stuff)..

I am behind the project as I say, as long as everyone feels they can handle it alongside our site.. and I am more than happy for others to use my content (encyclopedia) as long as my artwork and Chris’& Martin’s writings are credited.

Hope that was of help :slight_smile:

Well i think it is extremely generous of you offer up your artwork for a wiki. I’d actually go so far as to say that is too generous?

I think part of the amazing impact your digital art has had on the site, was to give us a lot of the look and feel, a lot of the visually based association that people would have with our site.

I think to have an open wiki make use of that which essentially has become part of the brand of this site would be a mistake. But its not mine to give away, it would be your choice Kyle, I just think part of the unique appeal of TCL is your work. I’d rather it stayed unique to our site.

Don’t be silly, it takes a LOT to offend me :slight_smile: I’m just glad you see now that my comments were about TCL involvment and NOT the idea itself of setting up a wiki.

I agree with you Mark, we definately think alike. Fans can still see the art right here and it’s not as though it isn’t accessible here. With a new project it would be nicer to have new art to go with it. It gives a bit more variety and more content is always welcome. But like you point out it’s Kyle decision to make.

Chris here…

It’s really late and I’m really tired and so I’ll possibly post up a more detailed response tomorrow - but, I just wanted to say that you & I are in complete and total agreement on this point, Mark. :slight_smile: Although it goes without saying that Kyle’s Encyclopedia artwork is his to do with as he wishes, FWIW (and with no negativity meant towards a TCats wiki project) I too would really like his artwork to remain unique to TCL. Let’s face it, the only two Cartoon-based areas of this site that at the present time are completely unique are the Encyclopedia (predominantly because of Kyle’s artwork) and your Animation Art Section. Whilst I’m very proud of the work I’m doing on the Episode Guide, etc., in the main that’s just a personal take and presentation on pre-existing material, whereas those other two areas have a uniqueness about them. If that content then gets reproduced elsewhere, for me it kind-of negates the purpose of TCL’s Cartoon Section even existing… :frowning:

All of which makes it sound like I’m really negative on the TCats wiki idea, which actually isn’t the case - largely down to Angie’s persuasive arguments, LOL! :wink: Anyways, like I say I’ll jot down some more detailed thoughts when I’m less tired, but I basically just wanted to sound my agreement to Mark’s good points on the artwork issue. :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile: