You make some excellent points Mark and promoting the site should be high on the agender no matter what in my opinion.
However the general consensus is that one site owner is not a good idea. You know that we all like to have our say and then take a vote on nearly all the issues that come up.
It’s really late now and I’m too tired to comment any further. I’ll probably return to this thread tomorrow though 
After reading your post Mark I do agree that you bring excellent points but as Neil mentioned along with everyone else one “owner” of the website would not be such a good idea. I don’t want to nor I like to mention the “corporate” side of things because thats not what we where founded upon.
Reality is that TCL was probably never envisioned by any of us what it is today. Who would've thought that we would be getting email's from TV stations to contribute towards shows, etc who would've thought we would be getting e-mails and messages of Ebay Powersellers wanting our opinion and advice on certain items, who would've thought another website with a brand new auction platform would offer us 10% of fees just for our members posting auctions. I can go on and on about that but it really makes me feel down and at the same time upset to know that not only my efforts but everybody's as well has been put down because auction proceeds, raffles, and partnerships with other websites is only good for the short term.
Essentially I have taken the role of finding ways to finance the site without financial self sacrifices and Im happy to take on that role even if it means auctioning some of my items. It is not fair to me or anybody in the team that because one person provides full or partial financial backing that they should get special treatment. If that were to happen it would alienate those that upon no fault of their own cannot provide financial contributions.
On the topic of Google ranking and the more corporate side of things, they can be accomplished not necessarily by Manny but it can also be by someone else in the team. If anybody wants to take on that active role then by all means it is encouraged because my God we need Google rankings. However when money becomes an issue as part of making executive decisions then thats when we hit a brickwall because we all want to have our say in things. If you look at other websites that run more professionally you will notice that even though they are a team they have certain specific duties. Example.. PR Specialist, marketing Guru, Tech Person, Administrators, and so forth. Things like that can be implemented but not as a result of one person fully backing the site financially. If you want to do the more corporate side of things I dont see any objections, if you want to invest in the website like you have done in the past then that is awesome but I dont believe just because you or anyone else did that they should get preferred treatment.
Nobody is stopping anyone on taking the more corporate role in the website, I think thats a great idea to begin contacting other companies and expanding TCL but not as a result of financial backing. We all want to benefit from the website one way or the other but to move forward we have to put ourselves aside and look at the bigger picture and forget about getting any personal gain. At the moment we can’t have any personal gain except the satisfaction of putting info out there for everyone and makin TCL the best place for fans to gather. Anybody can take on the more corporate role of the website if they want to spend the time and effort. If we are to expand into even buying established URL’s like thundercats.com and others then thats awesome. I guess what Im trying to say is that the different roles can be accomplished and done without placing those roles as a result of financial backing.
Manny and Neil, you both seem to think that “owning” the site would mean having some special say on internal site management issues. I’m saying that for me this is not true. You’re both stuck on the idea of “owning” meaning being the boss of.
What I’m proposing is that internal site management, team decisions about the site’s content, layout, what news stories to carry etc. would remain those of MannyF’s and the teams at large (on which I’d still only get my one “vote” as a contributing team member).
I am more interested in the external management, the promotion of the site and raising our profile. I am suggesting that ownership, ie: the financial implications of ownership, and all that goes along with that such as paying for the costs of the site, and paying the costs of professional google ranking help, for an established URL etc… all these things require money and need to be funded somehow.
I truly admire MannyC and MannyF’s selfless efforts to fund the site as it stands now, but I am betting that as these costs increase, or if we take on more promotional costs, that the ideas implemented so far won’t get us all the way there, and can only help us in the short term. That’s an opinion and sorry if that bothers or deflates you MannyC but that’s just how I see it bro. Like I said, my hat is off to you for the initiative you’ve always shown on keeping the site up and running.
Anyway, I’m not looking for, or trying to force any changes today, I’m just planting a seed with you all about what I see happening in the future and how I’m prepared to step up and help the site take advantage of that future.
Please refer to your specific post below…where it clearly states you would like to buy the site and finance the expenses with your only goals being and I quote “1) my personal collecting initiatives… ie: contact building and 2) because I feel like I want to get into the ‘corporate side’ of the site. I think I could do a good job of it.”
In a nutshell and I apologize if I’m being too blunt or direct. Funding the site seems to be only good to advance your personal goals not TEAM goals.
End of my rant. Perhaps good intentions but perception is EVERYTHING. If I have offended anyone or been too direct and disrespectful I apologize, it was and never was meant to be like that, but the cartoon I love will never become an avenue of dispute and discord. I’ll keep on posting my little auctions for the site and gather pennies here and there.
Manny I fail to see why you think I’ve been inconsistent with what I’ve said. I am fully upfront throughout to say that I expect that building contacts in the TCats world will help me uncover some TCat art gems, and that this is important to me. It’s also not the only thing that is important to me. I really don’t understand how you think this would be in conflict with the sites best interests.
You said that you don’t want to think about or talk about the corporate side of the site. I think you can’t ignore that aspect of the site, at least not forever.
You and I see this whole issue very differently, let’s just each accept that we have a different view right now, but that at some point in the future our views may come closer together. I respect you and your work, and I respect your opinion. I just don’t agree with it.
I’m back with a couple new pennies’ worth to add to the discussion.
Mark, I’m glad you came back to clarify your points. Though I will admit, I too am still a little confused myself and can see why Neil and Manny have the impressions that they do.
Sorry about that. There were other posts too and side conversations we got off on tangents with that probably didn’t help matters either. But even looking back, I still get the impression that you were saying money=ownership, and that o word is a loaded term for a site that’s running on the team effort concept. Which is where some of the reaction that followed came from. What seems clear to you, I guess, isn’t as much to some of us.
My response:
) taken us through the inevitable infighting that a group like ours will. Through all of it Manny’s been a natural leader, though he’d the be the last to admit it.Yes, Manny is a sweetheart! I don’t think anyone really wants to change his role, as we all agreed that he’s done fine so far and there’s no point in messing with that now.
I think the idea of a change in the future was just put out there to have it mentioned and on the table because if that role isn’t ‘awarded’ due to factors like financial backing or the like, then theoretically, any one of us could take a stab at it in the future if there’s A) others on the team that want that chance and B) we agree and Manny needs a break or something.
But definitely, if he doesn’t mind doing it and we’re happy with him, then yes I agree to keep the status quo there.
I know you didn’t suggest replacing him, but the conversation sprung up more out of (I think, if memory serves) a post Neil made more along those lines.
I see the owner (at least how I’d see myself operating) as being the one who looks after external issues… ie managing relationships with organizations that matter to us… like WB, like the folks who put the DVDs together, like any media relations. Ownership also means making decisions about partners that we work together with, corporate things like banner ads (heaven forbid!) and Collectica type of arrangements.
It’s true that those roles can exist as two different things.
However, I think the ownership term - just the psychology of it in a team dynamic - is what makes people pause despite any good intent and promises not to be overbearing or pull the rug out from under us.
I think, along the same lines as MannyC it seems, in that if you want to take on all those roles and the team agrees to it, that’s fine. Having basically a PR person never hurts and you clearly have the time, money and ambition to pursue it for us.
However, I do believe it’s a mistake to fly it under an ownership banner and/or have it tied to financial backing. If you also wanted to donate finanacially to the site, that’s good too but I will maintain - having this go for everyone who donates - that it’s kept independent of any other thing having to do with the site. Anyone’s donation is just that - a donation to the site, big or small - and nothing more. Anything else any of us do for the good of TCL - big or small - is done independently of our ability to financially support it. Indeed, it seems the most fair and diplomatic way to handle that end of it in my opinion.
In my tenure in the fandom, I’ve seen meltdowns and implosions over things that appeared a lot more innocent and well-intentioned, and I think when you have this many people trying to come together and agree as much as they can and contribute as much as they can, though we all have different circumstances limiting us there, that ownership by any one person should be avoided. Especially not awarding the title because someone can afford to buy it. I really would hate to see that happen to our group here.
Make no mistake, this site is never going to be a cash cow for anybody. Owning the site and looking after the costs of the site will be a breakeven venture at best, and likely will always mean some out of pocket for the owner. What I was proposing is that I could take on that cost largely because it would be offset for me as doing this work would lead to me improving my collection, a place I am already investing money and time. That’s a life long passion for me
Indeed, running a site takes money. And when you’re like me and my site, it is a one person show all the way around with pros and cons to that. In my case, yes because I pay for it, maintain it, etc I am the owner.
Under a team dynamic, that usually doesn’t work as well - at least I’m not seeing it in this fandom. Most things should be a team effort, including the chance to financially back the site, and taking volunteers for the other jobs otherwise. True, you do gotta have someone to look to for final say when we’re split on a decision and so on, a leader. And we have one. But I think having a leader or an admin, whatever you want to call it, especially if they’re chosen on a basis other than ‘I paid for it, it’s mine and I should benefit’ philosophy, for example, we can swallow that a lot easier than an owner buying us out. I think that’s the sticking point.
Overall I don’t think many have a problem with you doing one or both (PR type work and donating money) but making you (or anyone - certainly nothing personal, Mark) owner, especially if it’s solely because you can afford it, is the part putting people off. That road could lead to quite a can of worms, possibly. One that’s probably best left unopened for the sake of the long-term viability of this site.
I agree, that if it’s this site’s ambition to be on the forefront of the comeback online, then yes you’re going to want to get your exposure up before the big comeback wave hits or yeah, you won’t get the benefit of the hits because nobody, comparitively, will be able to find you. As someone that’s worked hard on my own page, you definitely want fans to come look at what you’ve done - that’s why you post it! To share and be seen
Does wb own that one? I know some dude is using thundercats.org as a blog that, from what I can see, has nothing to do with tcats. Ugh.
At any rate, I guess it never hurts to ask especially if you can afford prices like that.
b) Look at hosting “The Ultimate ThunderCats Website” as an archived site that is easily found off of our main site. I’d contact the owners of that dead site and offer to lift that ongoing expense from, archive their pages and keep fans visiting while taking over the traffic that goes to them by virtue of their #1 google and yahoo rankings. Also fairly long shot, but achievable I think.
I heard he paid for that top ranking, because really after all this time dead with no updates, that site should have dropped like a rock by now.
Before you buy him out or whatever, look into buying google ranking yourself. It is heresay, because I never did meet the webmaster of that site (bowed out of the fandom before I came along) but some trusted folks in the fandom never did have anything nice to say about him, so good luck with that. Maybe you’ll catch him at the right time or maybe he’s grown up in the last 10 years or so :lol:
Another thing I think you guys should do to help your exposure is get out in the fandom more. The fandom, though not as robust as it used to be, really has been like a big family and you want to reach out to those people who would be your potential return visitors here - and they are frequenting the other active sites. You also want to befriend webmasters of the other active sites and work with them to help them promote you. You’ve already done that some, but you might need to step that up too, especially since - like it or not - the wrong impression about this site when it launched probably hurt you a little there. If you’re more active in the fandom outside the tcl bubble here, I think it would dispell the myths anyone might still be holding onto and show folks that no, your noses aren’t really so much in the air after all 
Word of mouth and cross-promotion have always been great tools for more hits, and a little dose of shameless self promotion never hurts.
Heck, when I started out, I was all over the active boards at the time and while I didn’t spam post, my sig was an advert every time I did post and I wasn’t afraid to post update notes on other boards in the appropriate forums to get me established, either.
I know some opinions here about EOT vary, and that a few of you post over there once in a great while, but you gotta face it - that site is the most active message board/site for tcats at the moment, and you’d do yourselves a promotional favor by hanging out there more and working out a deal with the owners to cross-promote or something.
Hmm, I would have thought tcl would have thought about that when they launched, given the founding ambition of the site.
I did outgrow several hosts (just when the comics came out alone, I got so much traffic and bandwidth drag - not that I had a lot with the host I had at the time - I had to move on to something better), but then I didn’t start out to be any sort of catch-all site for Thundercats. Free hosting with limited everything worked for me for a while when I just hosted a handful of fics and fan art. But yeah, eventually I needed more and more.
For now, I don’t fear any revival and what it might mean for me because with what I have now, I’d have to have insane traffic to peg out my bandwidth meter now. I believe I’m good to go for quite some time, unless and until my host goes belly under.
If folks don’t mind my asking, what is your site package like? How many gigs of space or bandwidth do you have a month, and what’s the cost? Also, how many gigs do you burn through a month right now as compared to hits?
That info and analyzing it will give you a rough idea of what to shoot for when figuring the future hosting needs of the site.
It might be, if you’re anticipating this revival meaning overwhelming things for you, better to look into hosting that fits because trust me, it gets tiresome trying to stay ahead of bandwidth overage charges and downtime that happens as a result, even if you have the money to pay it (and most hosts actually charge a lot more per gig you go over than if you just bit the bullet and paid say, 5 bucks more a year to have a ton more to work with by getting a new host altogether. Or, if you don’t have the top package at your host, might be more economical in the long run to just up your package to the next tier of goodies or two.
In other words, you’re anticipating growth I never was, so nip it in the bud the most headache free way now if that’s really a concern. In the middle of a hot revival, you don’t want downtime, slow servers, etc to worry about.
Grizz
Mark, I’m glad you posted. Your thoughts and opinions are just as important to hear whether we agree or not.
In short, I pretty much agree with most of your points other than going about the hows a bit differently. i.e. I’ve a strong urge to take out the ownership title and keep certain things seperated (ie not tying monetary donations to any sort of other thing on the site). If you don’t want to do the PR thing without the title and the money given to ‘earn’ that title, that’s still your choice but I’d have to voice a no going with it with all that tied into it. The fandom cynic here sees no long term good in it, sorry to say.
I think more promotion for tcl is great, and honestly if there’s anything more I can do for the site on my own webspace please feel free to ask. Your other ideas were spot on too, and I thank you for putting them out there.
As a final note, the usual disclaimer: I meant no offence to anyone, and I hope we can continue to bat around ideas civilly in this thread. Inevitably, these issues are ones that have to be discussed when running a site so even if emotions might run high at points, it really is best to just get it out in the open no matter what the team final verdict may be.
Thanks for living through another of my monster posts :cheetaraveryhappy:
I’ve been wanting to post my thoughts on this thread for awhile now, but wasn’t sure whether or not I should. I’m just going to briefly give my thoughts:[ul]
[li]Mark does bring up some great points about the “corporate” side of the site, though I think the biggest problem is the wording. The funding, the PR, and the promotion could be considered corporate, but since we are a non-profit website, it makes the site feel like a business when we call it corporate. That being said, he has some concerns that should and will be addressed.[/ul][ul][/li][li]Funding: As Angie mentioned in her post, the funding of this site was meant to never be an issue from the very beginning because of how it was created. I was happy to take on the funding to start up the site as well as last year’s renewal. I only brought up the funding issue to MannyC for this year’s renewal only. I probably could have taken on the funding for this year, but thought it would be a good idea to see if others would be interested in helping out for the upcoming renewal in August. That said, if the outcome would have been no one could fund the site, I would have come in and renewed the site without question. The funding issue didn’t come out of desperation, it was brought up out of interest for this year only.[/ul][ul][/li][li]Google Rankings: I know Neil has been concerned about this and I’ve researched about the ranking system even more after Mark’s post. Truthfully, as I am the HTML guy, I should have written the HTML so that our site is more reachable in search engines…unfortunately, that wasn’t even a thought when I was doing the framework of the site. I’ve been working on the front page aesthetically and on the coding so that Google will find the front page easier. I will make a new thread about tips on how all of us can make the site more viewable on Google as well as other websites.[/ul][ul][/li][li]thundercats.org and other domain names: I have already emailed the owner of the site regarding purchasing the name from him or buying him another domain name for “x” amount of years. I will let you guys know when he replies. Unfortunately, thundercats.net expired on May 27, 2007, but was renewed right away. :([/ul][ul][/li][li]Site Ownership: Hopefully this does not offend anyone, but as the person who originally funded the site, I want to help define the term ownership in regards to TCL – TCL is owned by the people who are currently working on the site, regardless of who funds the forums or the hosting responsibilities. With the exception of the site being “sold” to a single entity (such as the WB, which will never happen), this site will never have a single owner as long as the site is run in a team-based structure. I have never claimed ownership of the site nor will I ever. :)[/ul][ul][/li][*]The Future: No one knows what will happen regarding the popularity of the site and/or the franchise. If you guys haven’t checked out the site stats recently, last month the site received 5,000+ unique visitors and this month, we are on pace for 6,000+. Every month the site traffic has increased and I don’t expect that to change. I don’t expect the bandwidth to be a problem for a very long time.[/ul]I guess that wasn’t so brief… I know I didn’t address everything, but we have Angie and Chris who are good at clarifying things in detail…which I enjoy reading. 8)
Chris here…
I don’t know what it is about this thread that makes folks think twice before posting in it, but I’ve been “umming and arring” about posting here all day, LOL! However, maybe that’s a good thing, as it means that all the posts that appear here are considered and well thought-out ones.
On the subject of well thought-out posts, can I give mad props to Mark for posting such constructive, detailed, clear and well-constructed comments, and for adding something constructive to this conversation rather than turning it into a slanging match, which is what it had the potential to devolve into.
I don’t really want to comment in any great detail on the “Mark buying the site” issue any more because it sounds like it’s a dead issue - the only thing I would say, Mark my friend, is that the way you phrased your original post, it does sound as though a significant (dare I say “the main”?) reason why you wanted to buy this site is to further your own animation art collecting - and, whilst I can definitely understand that, I stand by my earlier comments that I think that would be the wrong reason to want to buy a site like this, with the ethos that lead to this site’s creation - I’m afraid when you started your “pitch” by writing “I’d like to buy the site, and everything will stay the same except this, which I’d like to use to further my own collecting initiatives”, that was the point at which you lost me! However, reading your post from earlier, I actually think that I could have got you wrong, and if that’s the case then I unreservedly apologise.
I’d also like to congratulate MannyF on what I consider to be an outstanding post - I think that that clarifies a lot of things, and sums up a lot of my own personal feelings regarding this site. Manny = legend!
And now, just to try for a “record longest TCL post”, I’d like to respond to Angie’s post!
On the subject of the long-dead “Ultimate ThunderCats Website”…
I believe the gentleman in question is named Ian Burkhard, who I’ve never personally spoken to but who I understand to be a very rude individual with a somewhat “superior” attitude. As I understand it, waaaaay back when TCL launched or was about to launch, Neil contacted him and asked about merging the two sites (or something along those lines). I’m not sure whether he received a reply or was just ignored, but the result is self-evident, LOL!
I definitely understand what you’re saying, and actually it says something interesting about this site’s origins in that, present company very much accepted, none of us have been a particularly active part of the online TCats community outside of this site. Most of us know each other via the forums of www.he-man.org, which several of us (notably Neil, MannyF and myself) have been frequenting for donkey’s years - I used to post on a (pretty dead) TCats message board many years back, in fact the first message board I ever posted on was a TCats board, however that goes back to 2000, LOL!
On the subject of the “bad press” that this site got when it launched, I hope nobody minds me addressing this for a moment. In the past I’ve actually contemplated taking a more active role on other TCats message boards, but (as well as the fact that, if I’m honest, I don’t really have the time), I’ve always been anxious that it would seem as though I’d signed up predominantly to puff TCL, which would further reinforce the negative concept that some folks evidently have had of us.
Myself personally, I’ve no problems with EOT beyond the fact that, if I’m honest, I’m not really a great fan of the way they present material - I prefer a different sort of site, such as yours (which I refer to regularly), this one, even a very “fan-oriented” site like Cheezey’s excellent old site. But, it’s all horses for courses!
Something I would ask on this note, and again in the hope of not offending anyone - has anybody from this team (aside from Angie) responded to Omicron regarding his plans for a TCats wiki site? Whilst I’m mildly sceptical as to whether the Internet really needs yet another TCats site (although I’m sure loads of folks would have said the same of us), and whilst I personally don’t really want to commit to contributing on any significant basis until I’ve completed some of the stuff I have to do for this site (the Episode Guide being the major thing), if we haven’t yet replied to Omicron (even just to say “no”) I think that things like this could reinforce the negative perception that some may have had of us. 
Angie, you are so kind and supportive, and as always it is really appreciated! Having you on this team makes a huge difference and honestly, sincerely, the support that you’ve shown really means a lot! Thank you!
What can I say, guys? Yet another long post, LOL! Like Angie, I hope I haven’t offended anybody - I passionately believe that these Boards should be a place where we can all speak reasonably freely on our views on subjects without problems, and I’m really delighted to see that this thread has proven to be so constructive and full of such well thought-out posts!
Take care…
I did send Omnicron a PM several weeks back, though he didn’t reply back so I’m not sure whether or not my PM was any help.
This is what I wrote:[INDENT]Hi Omnicron,
Apologies for not sending you this message sooner. Anyways, we’ve (TCL Team) discussed the project a little bit and the majority of us believe that a wiki site would be cool to have. As for us helping out, I know most of the team has their plate full with the focus on site content. Our concern is that if we helped out on the project, we would lose focus on TCL which is our main project and it is very time consuming to work on a site as big as TCL.
However, please do keep us updated on the progress of the project. If you do get things rolling and you need help code-wise, I do have some minor knowledge of setting up databases. The team has also discussed offering to host the site if need be and I do believe our host does allow wiki databases to be set up.
So keep us updated on the forum and if there is anything further we can help with, just let us know!
– Manny
[/INDENT]As for being more involved in the community and promoting TCL…I think Angie is correct that, at least speaking for myself, involvement in other tcats communities is a great idea. I guess my problem is that I already have a hard time contributing to this forum and it would be even more rare for me to post on other boards. I do believe I am registered on your site Angie and on EOT…I just haven’t posted very much on either forum.
As for promotion, I don’t want to join a forum just to plug the site…it’s unprofessional…at least to me it is. I know we’ve plugged our site on He-Man.org (podcast), and even then, I don’t want to sound as an advertisement.
Chris here…
Ah, OK - apologies Manny, I didn’t realise that you’d done that, and also reading his posts on the Board it sounded like he hadn’t heard from us. Apologies again my friend, I should have known you’d be on the ball!
Yeah, I have similar thoughts - even though it wouldn’t be, for me there’s a fine line between that and “spamming” and for myself I would worry about looking as though I’d just signed up to a TCats board after two years just to puff TCL. However, maybe we should think of ways that we could “organically” begin to mingle on other boards…?
Take care…
Well I’ve come back to this thread as there are quite a few points I want to touch upon. There is an awful lot to take in here!
and I’ll admit certain bits have both upset and annoyed me.
[QUOTE=grizzlor]
I see the owner (at least how I’d see myself operating) as being the one who looks after external issues… ie managing relationships with organizations that matter to us… like WB, like the folks who put the DVDs together, like any media relations.
[/QUOTE]
That is cool and all, but Warner Bros. are not so easy to keep in contact with. It’s taken (and Chris can vouch for this) an hell of a lot of effort to maintain in contact and get responses from Warner Bros. UK. At the minute I’m on really great speaking terms with them which is why we were probably the first to break the news about the UK Season 1, Volume 2 DVD release. I’d prefer not to hand over the contact details to someone else as it might just piss them off. I haven’t worked this hard to build a rappor with them to just mess it up now telling them someone else is now in charge of PR on the site. They won’t give a damn when they see us as a fan site.
[QUOTE=grizzlor]
Look at hosting “The Ultimate ThunderCats Website” as an archived site that is easily found off of our main site. I’d contact the owners of that dead site and offer to lift that ongoing expense from, archive their pages and keep fans visiting while taking over the traffic that goes to them by virtue of their #1 google and yahoo rankings. Also fairly long shot, but achievable I think.
[/QUOTE]
Good luck Mate! That was one of the first jobs I took up the initiative with and sadly failed. Ian Burkhard seldomly replies to any emails, so I don’t fancy your chances at getting hold of him. Who knows though, if your offer big bucks that might get his attention… I have a contact who knows him so I could try that avenue of getting into contact with him I guess. It’s not something I thought about in quite a while if I’m being honest.
[QUOTE=grizzlor]
Would actively promote the site with WB and the new movie creators as a venue for them to get: research and polls; advertise the movie etc. We all know WB is crap for working with the fan base, but I’d give it a crack for sure.
[/QUOTE]
If anyone, I think Purrsia is most up to this kinda job. She has better contacts than we do. Have you ever emailed the WB Mark? I guarantee you, that is isn’t easy to get into contact with them for PR stuff.
[QUOTE=grizzlor]
5) Real issue of money
I will be quite candid to say that the ideas I’ve read so far about auction proceeds, anonymous team donations and raffles etc. will only help in the short term. If we’re interested in lifting our profile, our bandwidth usage will increase, and so will our costs for running the site. If what I’ve said about a resurgence is true, our hits and bandwidth will easily double as TCats becomes mainstream again (hopefully). We need to be thinking further ahead, and I’m sorry but I don’t believe the ideas (as good as they are) we’ve seen so far will be able to cover increased costs long term.
[/QUOTE]
But what is the long term? When does it start? What I’m saying is that we are still only a fan site in it’s infancy. I’m no defeatist and I see this site going places for sure! However at this time I don’t feel we need to make any long term plans for the site. I think what MannyC has been doing is excellent and very good of him. I honestly don’t see why have to think of the future of the site right now. Why not deal with stuff as it comes up? We need more bandwidth, then yes going on an higher package is probably the way to go, but can’t we deal with that obstacle when it arises? I do know what your saying, but I feel no major decisions are absolutely essential at this point in time. I do take on board that you did state this yourself and that your proposal is something to think about which is cool.
[QUOTE=grizzlor]
I am more interested in the external management, the promotion of the site and raising our profile. I am suggesting that ownership, ie: the financial implications of ownership, and all that goes along with that such as paying for the costs of the site, and paying the costs of professional google ranking help, for an established URL etc… all these things require money and need to be funded somehow.
[/QUOTE]
Well I’ll admit that I haven’t spent any money on promotion, but I have done my best here and there for us. I got us listed on a couple nostalgia sites as well as on wiki and trivia related sites such as Wikipedia and IMDB. I’ve also posted a video on YouTube with the site url across it. I’m planning on adding a couple more videos to YouTube soon to also promote the site. I think viral videos is one of the best ways to promote us!
It might also be cool to open up MySpace and YouTube accounts for the site too!
See, this isn’t something that has been totally ignored! lol
[QUOTE=Purrsia]
I know you didn’t suggest replacing him, but the conversation sprung up more out of (I think, if memory serves) a post Neil made more along those lines.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t exactly mean we should throw Manny on the scrap heap (and he knows this and I’m only commenting on it so others do too!) I’m not saying that’s what you said Purrsia, but I’d like to make it clear exactly what I meant. I think others could also take up a leadership role as well. Sometimes folks can’t always be around to have final say and chair things. Manny was away from the site for a few months a year or so back (due to personal reasons) and MannyC and I took up the reigns to a large extent. I like to think we did a good job back then. I know we did an hell of a lot for the toy section as I recall. Manny is a brilliant guy and a great friend who has done an excellent job on the site. I think Manny and I work extremely well together and I wouldn’t change that at all.
[QUOTE=Purrsia]
Another thing I think you guys should do to help your exposure is get out in the fandom more. The fandom, though not as robust as it used to be, really has been like a big family and you want to reach out to those people who would be your potential return visitors here - and they are frequenting the other active sites. You also want to befriend webmasters of the other active sites and work with them to help them promote you.
[/QUOTE]
Posting on other Thundercats message boards all over the place really isn’t my thing. Sorry! I don’t really have the time as I have other projects on the go that include contributions to Bravestarr.org and He-Man.org. Then I also have my personal life. I can’t see the point of chatting on another board when I post all my thoughts on Thundercats on my own sites board. I guess members of other sites such as EOT probably feel the same. As for contacting webmasters, we have but nothing can be achieved if they ignore our emails.
[QUOTE=Purrsia]
You’ve already done that some, but you might need to step that up too, especially since - like it or not - the wrong impression about this site when it launched probably hurt you a little there. If you’re more active in the fandom outside the tcl bubble here, I think it would dispell the myths anyone might still be holding onto and show folks that no, your noses aren’t really so much in the air after all
[/QUOTE]
We are done with the whole he-man.org post misinterpretation thing. The boasting posts had nothing to do with us and if folks still don’t see that, then so be it. It has been explained to death. If folks have a problem with us, then that ain’t our problem no more, it’s theres. We didn’t cause the hassle, so it would be nice for those who were involved to help clear the mess up instead. Infact to my knowledge those involved still haven’t directly apologised for what they said and what had happened to this day! I call that being eletist, in the fact that they are too ‘good’ and ‘high up’ in the community to apologise to a newbee.
[QUOTE=Purrsia]
I know some opinions here about EOT vary, and that a few of you post over there once in a great while, but you gotta face it - that site is the most active message board/site for tcats at the moment, and you’d do yourselves a promotional favor by hanging out there more and working out a deal with the owners to cross-promote or something.
[/QUOTE]
The owners have been contacted on many occasions by both pm and email. The only person to interact with us is Queen Lynxana (but through this forum) The others just ignore our correspondance, which I personally think is darn right ignorant. I won’t waste anymore of my time with the folks over on Eyeofthundera.net. Frankly I think they are an embarrassment to the Thundercats online community.
[quote=“Manny, post: 15097”]
[ul][li]thundercats.org and other domain names: I have already emailed the owner of the site regarding purchasing the name from him or buying him another domain name for “x” amount of years. I will let you guys know when he replies. Unfortunately, thundercats.net expired on May 27, 2007, but was renewed right away. :([/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
I’ve already contacted that guy and he won’t give up that domain I’m afraid. He mainly uses it as a server for his email accounts and said it was too much hassle to change it. Who knows? He might hand it over if serious money was offered…
Flooding this forum with my darn worthless pennies aren’t I? LoL Oh well.
Pennies need love too.
And now, just to try for a “record longest TCL post”, I’d like to respond to Angie’s post!
hehe, good luck, mister My long wind can outlast your long wind!
I believe the gentleman in question is named Ian Burkhard, who I’ve never personally spoken to but who I understand to be a very rude individual with a somewhat “superior” attitude. As I understand it, waaaaay back when TCL launched or was about to launch, Neil contacted him and asked about merging the two sites (or something along those lines). I’m not sure whether he received a reply or was just ignored, but the result is self-evident, LOL!
Ah, so that means so far the opinion on him is pretty universal then. Oh well, there’s gotta be some weenies in every batch…and now that name rings a bell. When I first came into the fandom, I asked about what happened to him innocently enough, and learned the fandom vets of the day not-so-affectionately referred to him as “Ian Blowhard” LOL
Warning enough I suppose
For a while I was still willing to give him some benefit of doubt, because lord knows I’ve had my share of folks seemingly mischaracterizing me (intimidating…really?? Harmless fuzzball here, really. Unless you happen to be a known asshat but I digress) but yeah I’m thinking this Ian dude is probably earning every bit of bad press in the fandom he’s gotten, which isn’t grudge wank. Let him hog the top spot in the search engines. A dead site is a dead site, and unless he gets back in the game, he’s not going to get the return visitors folks like us are after.
I have no idea where he went or what he does now, but clearly he’s still dumping money to keep that dead site up and in the top spot. Oh well.
Some egos die hard? :: shrugs ::
Normally, I try not to rip on other webmasters but something about him seems funny and classic fandom at the same time :evil: Hat’s off to you, Chris, for being polite in calling him a gentleman. But one thing I have been called before is immature, which that one’s more true than most, and I admit I gotta get my digs in sometimes. Blowhard. That rocks. I miss old fandom snark sometimes
On the subject of the “bad press” that this site got when it launched, I hope nobody minds me addressing this for a moment. In the past I’ve actually contemplated taking a more active role on other TCats message boards, but (as well as the fact that, if I’m honest, I don’t really have the time), I’ve always been anxious that it would seem as though I’d signed up predominantly to puff TCL, which would further reinforce the negative concept that some folks evidently have had of us.
Myself personally, I’ve no problems with EOT beyond the fact that, if I’m honest, I’m not really a great fan of the way they present material - I prefer a different sort of site, such as yours (which I refer to regularly), this one, even a very “fan-oriented” site like Cheezey’s excellent old site. But, it’s all horses for courses!
You know, I do feel bad now after meeting you guys and learning the story of what went down here really, and that it wasn’t founded on this attitude of “all the current fansites suck, let’s make teh best one evar”…so I try to undo what I can from that perception by trying to drop links when you are the source for something or otherwise promote tcl. Not to be delusional in thinking I have any kind of pull, and certainly each site is going to speak to a certain audience and not going to be another’s cuppa tea, but I hope most of that perception has faded by now.
I just think if some of you branched out and reached out to the fandom more instead of expecting everyone to find and come to you, it would help move things along to how you want them to be faster. The content and its presentation here, while wonderful and needed to fill a void in the fandom, does - if I may say - reinforce perhaps a further perception of rigid, er, stuffiness? If ya know what I mean. So I just think if the members, the team, were more outgoing and friendly across the board it would help somewhat.
Er, hmmm, what am I trying to say?
As someone who is often shy in real life and therefore comes across initially as aloof or *****y, I know what it’s like to be pigeon-holed as something I’m not necessarily, and also know the frustration of someone telling me to get out there and mingle when it’s not always my thing.
Thing is, this fandom is very social, and at times it can be clique-ish I suppose, but I do believe the core of it are friendly folks that just love Tcats and want to network and meet other fans. I do find it easier to open up online than IRL, but I also realize all of you might even not have the time for that even if you have the inclination.
I am definitely not suggesting everyone on the team has to immediately sign up on all the boards that still have a pulse and spam them tackily. You are right in thinking that would be a mistake. Surely there must be some of you that can do more in that arena though.
I know I see Mark on my board from time to time, though I can’t remember if his sig and/or profile promotes tcl or not or if he ever drops a plug for the site. I’ve seen Manny C on EOT a little, too. I really don’t see anything wrong with plugging a site’s upcoming features, big updates, exclusive news, etc on another board so long as indeed it’s not percieved as the only reason you’re popping by.
Mind you, when I started out with my own page at first, I’d already been active on cheeze’s board for a bit and it was common practice for those of us with fan sites to plug ourselves. Cheeze still does the same for herself in the other fandom we’re in, Voltron, on the other fan boards and nobody thinks a thing of it. We cross promote each other in the midst of our socializing/discussion posts. Maybe it’s an older fandom notion.
That sig link drop and profile promo may be part of my motivation for joining a fan board, but it’s never the sole one. I have to like the board and have something else to say, too. If my initial impression of you guys, for instance, was true trust me I wouldn’t be here posting at all, some extra hits be damned. I wouldn’t expect you to do the same, and while I realize some of the goings-on at my board or EOT might night be your cuppa, there’s usually some decent general discussion things going on there same as (and sometimes, same exact topics) as here, and there’s lotsa people that chime in on all the boards with similar comments. Different mix of people, different conversations can evolve from the same topic…if ya got that time, that is.
Granted, since expanding my site greatly from the old days and taking on another fandom (not even taking into account real life obligations) I’m not a post whore by any means on any board - even my own. So I’m not saying you have to be this giant social bug all of a sudden either.
People will get that you’re running a site of your own and are busy. But the rocky first rep and the fact that most of you remain unknown to so many regulars in the fandom probably isn’t helping matters. I guess what I’m saying is get out there a little more and introduce yourselves to the rest of the online fandom that might not be coming here yet…and in the process, you will be introducing TCL to them, too.
:: deep breath :: That rambled, now that I’m being on the team and somewhat established in this social little fandom of ours, if you want me to help break the ice, I can try. I mean, yeah I have my own page to ‘promote’ if you will, but I’ve never had a problem with helping friends with sites get some traffic and love, even if it just means a few more hits, by mentioning him. I mean, it’s not this cut-throat competition for me amongst friends. However, I’m not necessarily this BNF some might think and I think it would still work best coming from the founders themselves. Otherwise, I’m just like this publicist trying to convince folks how swell you all are, when really they’d much rather meet you and judge for themselves.
On the wiki thing…like I don’t have a 101 things going on myself :lol: Maybe I need to learn to say no, but I just love it, all these Thundercats projects. Anyway, last I knew EOT was trying to help him too. Truth be told, the wiki may rock, the wiki may suck but that could be said for the dozens of other fan efforts since the dawning of fandom. Trouble is, you won’t know what rocks til you invest the effort and that’s always the quandry, especially when you got stuff of your own cookin’. And just because I’m willing to spread myself thin I don’t expect you all to, but I’m geeked about it. I dunno, I guess I can see what others look at as a waste of time or a turd, but daydream about polishing it anyway.
In short, I’m on board soon as I stop: A) making long-ass posts here and B) get moved in at this new house and moving on the needed renovations. But I like being busy almost to the point of being overwhelmed - I feed off that - so that’s just me!
I understand the apprehension to a point, but all I got is time and time to waste, so I’m spending it like a drunken sailor :mischievous:
Aaaanyway, if you want me to ease you into the pool of Thundercats fandom socializing and shameless self-promo 101, I can try something like adverting your next podcast in my newsletter and on my board. But, to summarize that end in a nutshell, I still think it’d be cool if some of y’all branched out and shook hands with the fandom at large and let everyone know it can be friendly, fun and like a family here too.
/end ramble
P.S. I may have missed something, but I figure at this point…who the hell is reading anymore? LOL
i am, gotta love the long posts. It bring discussions to a new level
lol! I think we all caught the essay bug from Chris! So we should all blame that He-fan I say! (just kidding)
I’m baaack - oh noes! Also, I noticed I tripped off the swear filter in my last post, and that amuses me to a degree. But I am easily amused. Moving on.
You’re right, WB is a pain in the ass. I got snippy with them once when they were yanking me around, and well…that probably wasn’t smart in the long run but you know. I got time to burn, but not time for crap, necessarily. So I let them know it. I should dig up that email sometime and share it for chortles.
At any rate, they did email me that bit on the UK release but it came for me later than it had for you so who knows why…aside from the serving if witchy tude I gave em
At any rate, I thought I gave someone here my big arse list of contacts, for what it’s worth, because hey I don’t mind sharing. And for a while I was seriuosly thinking of stepping waaaay back from the fandom and figured why not share the contacts culled on the way out? Either way, I don’t give a rip. Knock yourselves out.
I know I shared that with EOT and I thought here, too, being the tcats sites with the most steam in 'em, but if I’m remembering in error just lemme know and I’ll pass the info on post-haste.
If anyone, I think Purrsia is most up to this kinda job. She has better contacts than we do. Have you ever emailed the WB Mark? I guarantee you, that is isn’t easy to get into contact with them for PR stuff.
I agree that WB is a pita to create reliable PR with, but I’m not so sure I’m the ideal one for that job :lol: As mentioned, I got a short fuse and this would take someone with tact to put up with long term - and hon, I ain’t got it. Sounds like you do though, so more power to ya Neil. Keep up the good PR! Mark could be great for that too, who knows, but yeah if you have indeed established yourself as their contact anyway, I agree it’s probably best left that way. But then, maybe Mark didn’t know that so cut him some slack maybe?
It might also be cool to open up MySpace and YouTube accounts for the site too!
Good idears. I do have a youtube account under Purrsia and meant to upload some fan clips with my url on them but been too lazy (and I have a personal myspace, of course). But what I like even better are the fan-site specific accounts. Oooh, can I stealies? Would love to apply that concept to my own page.
I didn’t exactly mean we should throw Manny on the scrap heap (and he knows this and I’m only commenting on it so others do too!) I’m not saying that’s what you said Purrsia, but I’d like to make it clear exactly what I meant. I think others could also take up a leadership role as well. Sometimes folks can’t always be around to have final say and chair things. Manny was away from the site for a few months a year or so back (due to personal reasons) and MannyC and I took up the reigns to a large extent. I like to think we did a good job back then. I know we did an hell of a lot for the toy section as I recall. Manny is a brilliant guy and a great friend who has done an excellent job on the site. I think Manny and I work extremely well together and I wouldn’t change that at all.
Oh right, that implication of what I wrote came off horribly and I’m sorry for that. I think the concensus has been nobody wants to callously toss Manny aside, so forgive me for some carelessness in my ramblings.
I should have been more specific or got off my lazy virtual butt and quoted you directly. My apologies.
Posting on other Thundercats message boards all over the place really isn’t my thing. Sorry! I don’t really have the time as I have other projects on the go that include contributions to Bravestarr.org and He-Man.org. Then I also have my personal life. I can’t see the point of chatting on another board when I post all my thoughts on Thundercats on my own sites board. I guess members of other sites such as EOT probably feel the same. As for contacting webmasters, we have but nothing can be achieved if they ignore our emails.
I think my above post addresses further thoughts on that, but of course if that’s how you feel individually that’s how you feel.
We are done with the whole he-man.org post misinterpretation thing. The boasting posts had nothing to do with us and if folks still don’t see that, then so be it. It has been explained to death. If folks have a problem with us, then that ain’t our problem no more, it’s theres. We didn’t cause the hassle, so it would be nice for those who were involved to help clear the mess up instead. Infact to my knowledge those involved still haven’t directly apologised for what they said and what had happened to this day! I call that being eletist, in the fact that they are too ‘good’ and ‘high up’ in the community to apologise to a newbee.
You may be, but I’m telling you, some of the fandom isn’t. And if I understand the goals here correctly, it still is somewhat your prob even if you didn’t create it. I only saw it explained to death on EOT in one thread…it probably reached some, and I realize you can’t control what people think and yeah, at some point you gotta say ‘that’s their loss’ for not investigating themselves, but I’m just speaking as someone who’s been in the fandom a while and have seen stupider politics ruin other fine aspirations and have suggested humbly that maybe one way you here can counter-act that to a degree is to make yourselves more socialble and friendly - let people get to know the team behind the site. Or else you will feel cold, ‘corporate’ and untouchable to some which goes against what the majority of online fandom holds dear so far, at least in a fan site.
Don’t beat yourselves up over it and definitely know when to let go and say you’ve tried, enough is enough…but one forgotten post on a board some time ago probably, I propose, isn’t quite there. Unless I missed something, anyway, that’s all I remember coming out of you guys as a response, and if it wasn’t for me being there in the thread at the time, I would probably still think you’re a bunch of snooty arses, to be blunt. Half the reason I ignored your first email to me, Neil, when this site launched was because of all that. Yes, I know that’s a mistake now, but that thread plus coming over here and getting to know you all changed my mind, but I’m saying not everyone is going to do that second step.
Think of it like PR to the fans. You’re running a fan site for fans, right? But then PR is 90% perception, and like any agent, if the public gets the wrong idea about something then the PR people try to undo the damage by getting out there and showcasing the other side of it, no matter who started the foul rumor.
As for EOT, there’s three owners. Jason-Ra doesn’t do much - kinda a silent partner so he wouldn’t reply. Lyonnarra has had some horrible things go on in her personal life this year, so that’s probably why she’s short on responses. And Queenie has indeed been friendly enough to pop over here and offer some scans to boot. So they don’t hate you I’m sure. I don’t know the nature of what you were asking, but I do know at what point queenie was wary of what you meant by being sister sites and I know she doesn’t want to merge or be bought out, so maybe that’s a big part of the dealy. Although I do agree they (or one of them) should freaking respond somehow already just as a courtesy.
It’s a dynamic that I wouldn’t expect folks to understand outright, given they do present themselves as equal owners. They are, but they aren’t…it’s hard to explain, so it doesn’t surprise me that queenie is the only one trying to work with you as she’s the most present and active at the time out of the three of them. But that dovetails with here…it doesn’t have to be all of you to act as queenie has on behalf of EOT, but just a few willing souls that feel comfortable and maybe already have their foot in the door on a few forums, if you want to entertain that. That’s all I’m saying.
Frankly I think they are an embarrassment to the Thundercats online community.
hehe, this is why I said opinions may vary, and I definitely don’t expect you to hang out somewhere you’re utterly uncomfortable with or otherwise dislike. Just saying if others on the team don’t mind doing it, other than me as I think it’d be more meaningful, then that’d be the place to start. My board, by comparison is a ghost town compared to there so it’s your better bet for exposure and activity. Just being practical, I guess.
I’ve already contacted that guy and he won’t give up that domain I’m afraid. He mainly uses it as a server for his email accounts and said it was too much hassle to change it. Who knows? He might hand it over if serious money was offered…
doh. what a waste of a perfectly good domain. Eh well.
Anyway, we covered this more in an IM just now, Neil, and no I’m definitely not offended by your post or mad. Good to know how you feel and open up other avenues for discussion/clarification. Hope my Blathering Post #2 helped somewhat move us farther ahead to understanding on another. Thanks!!
Chris here…
Well, if it helps, twice in the last hour I’ve spent 15 minutes writing this post, only for the forums to go down and me lose the whole bloody lot, so that’ll teach me, LOL!
I’m going to be brief in this post in case it happens again! A bit later on I’ll write a more detailed response…
In terms of taking part in other TCats message boards - I wonder whether we might be able to use ThunderCast as a means of “breaking the ice” on some Boards. I know MannyC started a thread about ThunderCast episode 1 on EOT’s board, I’m wondering whether I could be cheeky and ask whether Angie could give folks a heads-up when episode 2 goes live, to which someone (maybe me?) could sign up and say (in slightly more detail) “Just wanted to come over here and say thanks to Purrsia for giving this a shout-out - been meaning to sign up here for a long time but don’t know where the time goes - we really had a lot of fun working on this so hope you guys will enjoy listening to it - would welcome feedback, suggestions for future podcasts, e-mails to be read out in future podcasts, etc.” - that type of thing. Me being me, I would also throw in some gentle self-deprecating humour to endeavour to take any sort of perception of pretention out of the equation. From there, this could be used as a “springboard” for some of us taking part in TCats discussions over on Angie’s board and/or EOT from time-to-time, not necessarily with huge regularity but just once in a while.
I definitely think the podcast project could serve as an “ice breaker” - what do you think?
Take care…
Hey guys just a quick update on the auctions. After posting 6 auctions on Ebay the total for sold items came out to just over $202. Of those $202 I kept roughly 50% of the sales and left the rest in TCL’s PayPal account. The account after renewing the domain for 2 more years will have roughly $100.
So as it stands we are well on the way to renewing hosting not only for 1 year but for 2 years, on top of that, the domain has been renewed from expiring next year to expiring in 2010. I got a few more items I will auction but I would like to get some support if possible for a raffle starting next Saturday. If anybody have some Thundercats items you can spare let me know but if not I can get a raffle going for 2 items. If you have any items let me know before Saturday so I can post on the boards what items will be raffled.
As always sales are looking good on the Ebay front. Just some minor link problems on the Lion-O auction. To let you all know that there may be a good possibility of an Ebay seller who is interested in advertisement for his Ebay store/physical store via our front page. This is currently in the bare works as i need to research advertisement a little bit more on some fair rates but we may also have to do some advertising via podcast as well. More to follow…However things are looking good in the funding front and we may be looking at funding hosting for 2 years rather than 1 and still have funds left over for some giveaways
Sorry I haven’t been around lately. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that the site is renewed for 2 years thanks to MannyC.
I owe Chris and Neil a PM…haven’t forgotten!