TCL Funding

Site Discussion Team Discussion
1

Well I have thought long and hard about posting about this. It’s almost that time of the year and hosting is about to expire in 2 months time. Funding for the website in the past year has been funded mainly by both Manny and I with the help of a few others in the team. I am more than glad in taking charge for the domain funding but hosting is the most expensive part. I’m not asking for funding from everyone because not everyone can afford hosting and all the other expenses but there are a few things that can be done proactively by team members as well as from members of the board. I have some ideas in mind but I need the help from everyone.A few things that could bring some revenues for funding the website are:

  1. Contribution from forum members via a paypal donation link. After an indivdual donates a certain amt they can receive some goodies from us like a 8X10 print of the group shot and for higher donations they can receive something like an 8X10 of group shot, name on a dedicated donators page and ability to customize their user title. Perhaps we can come up with more ideas for that.

  2. Advertising from toy websites or stores via our front page for a set amount of money for a specified amt of time.

  3. Referrals from Amazon, HMV etc which is already implemented

  4. Contributions by existing team members

I think we should come up with ways to bring considerable revenues because hosting is not cheap by any means. This request is not meant to pressure anybody because before that happens I would much rather take on the funding myself but we as a team have to come up with a solution for funding the website. Please your thoughts on this…thanks for hearing me out

2

Guys, I have an idea that I’ve been noodling for a while and wanted to know what you think about it…

I’d like to buy the site and and finance the expenses. I’d change nothing about the site, everybody would retain creative control of their own sections, all site content decisions would continue to happen the way they do now and Manny would keep the Site Admin role.

The only thing I’d take a different role on would be partnership decisions, become the main point of contact for relations with Rankin Bass, WB etc. I’d really want to do that for two reasons: 1) my personal collecting initiatives… ie: contact building and 2) because I feel like I want to get into the ‘corporate side’ of the site. I think I could do a good job of it.

If the team feels like this is something they could support, I could work out the details with Manny and Manny et al. I can’t afford much for the purchase, given that I’ll be obligating myself to the ongoing payments for the URL and hosting.

Thoughts?

3

Let’s hear it 8). For donators we can set up their own user group and give them a special icon showing they are supporters of TCL. Even something like TCL Supporter in the place where we have TCL Team Members

4

Mark I understand that your intentions are good and for the best of the site but the site nor the expenses are up on the sale block. This site was built upon team work. With that being said you and everyone else can contribute towards expenses but know that the site as a whole is not and will not be on the sale block. This site belongs to everyone and I refuse to let something like what happened to EOT.net happen to us. Yes Manny and I have incurred most of the expenses but that doesnt imply or mean that we own anything. We will finance the site one way or another wether by team or individual efforts.

5

May I ask how much we are looking at for the site hosting? (I know the cost to renew domain names already)

If you can post that info it would be a big help.

This is something that needs re-looking at, as the links are just not prominant enough in my opinion (though I believe MannyF is working on some new buttons for affiliate links already)

Would it also be possible to have full reports of the revenue activity on amazon.com? I can send the reports for Amazon.co.uk and HMV to Manny no problem.

Sadly the revenue for those isn’t enough though (we have about 65 pence in Amazon and 54 pence in HMV)

6

I believe the hosting is $99/year and although to be realistic $99 is not a huge amt of money but when finances are tight it is. I’m not saying they’re tight on my side or anybody’s side for that matter but its a good chunk of change. As it stands right now TCL’s PayPal account currently has $14.46 from the sale of 1 poster last year. I would like it so there would be funds not only for site expenses but for things like giveaways and such. I briefly spoke to Manny last night about this issue and so I fully agreed to take the hosting expenses for this year because after all he needs a break since he has paid for it the last year or two. If at all possible I would like to keep team member’s contribution to a minimum and if possible no contributions coming from any team members but we need to come up with a bigger solution even if it means doing advertising for other websites as well as seting up a donation link on the main page as well as the forums. Im sure there would be some members who would gladly contribute. In the forums we can set up something like a supporter user group where they would get the ability to customize their user titles as well as having the title below them be something like TCL Supporter or something to that effect. I can easily print 8x10’s sort of like a goodie to give them for donations and we can even go as far as giving supporters a special Thundercats icon next to their name to show that they support TCL. Just some ideas and if anybody comes up with anything better feel free to post. I know some folks cannot contribute because of one reason or the other but even being proactive in finding ways to create revenues would be of great help.

7

I reckon that $14.46 should be used for the site hosting, then any money made from Amazon can be used perhaps to buy something like DVD sets from Amazon to giveaway as prizes.

So that makes the hosting about $84?

I’m happy to pay half ($42) which will give me a 50% share in the site for the following year (June 2007-June 2008)

My only condition for this would mean all site wide decisions, such as the front page go through MannyC and I. People will still be in charge of their own sections and anything they contributed is their own property still. The only things that would come under the share holders ownership would be items donated to us from outside sources. An example of this is the bloopers video in the cartoon section.

If however Mark wants to come on board or anyone else we can split the shares even further. Say 33% each and split the hosting 3 ways ($33 each) and then use that Paypal money to buy a prize for a giveaway.

With the pound being so strong against the dollar at the moment I’m definately happy to contribute to the hosting this time around! :slight_smile:

8

Seems like TCL is now seen as a business. Please don’t take this the wrong way I’m just speaking my mind. Yes Manny has paid for the hosting, yes Ive paid for the domain charges since the site opened, we have also paid for the forums along with Mark but bottom line is that while this may seem like we “own” something, fellows we really don’t. I can’t go out and sell a portion of what I’ve paid because guess what nobody else would agree with it and I love this site and what I put into too damn much to even do that. Manny first put himself out there to create what we have and all of us followed suit with content and even financially. Does decisions have to go strictly thru Manny and I because we have provided most of the financial support? NO absolutely not. Because guys the day that TCL goes to my head is the day that I will walk out of here and leave. If there’s any contributions made from within the team, great because thats what we are all about a TEAM but if anybody wants to contribute expecting to get some sort of fringe benefit or ownership then thats the wrong way to look at things. We didnt make this site to own something but to give fans what we ourselves were not given. If i have learned something it is called self-less service, look up self-less service and one can see that it means place the needs of others before your own. I don’t want to be the bad guy here or the beggar for that matter but I think that it is time to act and find better ways to fund the site rather than fund it strictly by team members. Hopefully I’m not rambling too much, thanks guys for hearing me out. Hopefully we can arrange something soon without the team members comitting their finances

9

Throughout these couple of years where Manny funded the site, he had final say on site wide decisions :slight_smile:

I’m not looking to have a stranglehold on anything :slight_smile:

When you are part of a team, some of the goings on will seem business like, otherwise things start to go pear shaped! If we all lived in the same town and country it would be a lot easier, but since we don’t we have to work with the running of the site the best we can.

and I prefer not to go begging forum members to open their wallets. I think it’s a bad idea. We could, however make them aware that by buying from Amazon and HMV via our links, they will be helping to keep this site going financially :slight_smile:

10

Yeah, for the two years that I have funded the site, I never asked to be the guy who makes the site wide decisions. Everyone appointed me as that person and I hope it wasn’t because I funded the site because I would be disappointed if that was the case. I’ve always asked the team for input, which I thought would be best for the site.

Anyhow, I brought up this topic to MannyC on Saturday telling him that I wasn’t sure if I could fund the site 100% this coming August. It’s not that I couldn’t fund it again because I probably could, but I just felt that if the funding could come elsewhere, then I’d be open to the options. So we came up with ideas to get funding in different areas…

If the funding has to come from forum members, I would prefer it to be the last resort, but I really don’t think it’s embarassing to ask for donations in exchange for incentives. Many sites do it, and if it means keeping TCL running, I don’t think it should be looked at as bad if our hand is forced.

Back to the site wide decisions, I would be open to giving that responsibility to someone else now if you guys don’t think I’m doing my share…we don’t have to wait for the hosting to be renewed to talk about that part. :slight_smile:

11

Easy fix…I’ll take the hosting costs. Nothing changes…and Manny youre doing one hell of a job so dont think that youre not, otherwise i may have to fly down to San Diego to put some sense into you, seriously Im happy to take on the hosting this time and whenever is needed. If anybody would like to contribute then we can use those funds for giveaways and such. I still think donations could help the site immensely

12

Hehe, thanks Manny, you can fly down and we can get some drinks at the bar :wink: …I’m serious though. I’m not looking for the pity vote – I want what’s best for the site and if I’m not doing that, then we need to re-look at the situation.

13

I know I’m the newbie of the bunch here, so feel free to tell me to stfu. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard that :lol:

It is a team here, which has great advantages in so many ways, one of the biggest being on one person has to bear the load of building the site - or its costs, ideally - on their shoulders. Also, everyone of course should feel like they’re significant and their efforts matter. But I’m not sure that should in this case, be tied directly to who contributes the most financially. Some people, after all, might make equally good leaders etc but just don’t have the funds to buy more “shares”. So I’d have to agree that those aspects are best kept separate.
Indeed, in the course of running my own site, I"ve often said if folks don’t like what I’m doing over there to go put the money and effort in themselves and make their own site. And obviously there’s some advantages to being the autonomous dictator of your own page…and then there’s disadvantages too. Those should be pretty obvious.
But this is unique over here so far, and really when I’d first hear this was your set-up I wondered if it could maintain or if egos and in-fighting would eventually end the site as its known. I surely hope that doesn’t happen.

The earlier EOT reference, as much as I support that site as well, has some merit and a lesson should be learned from what almost tore them apart. Yes, if you’re here to be a part of building a great Thundercats site for other fans who don’t have the time or resources to do it themselves then keep it as it is. Manny, though I don’t know him extremely well, from what I do know he seems competent and not an ego-maniac, and seems to have led the site well so far. Granted, perhaps he has had final say before but every team does need a leader and if he’s doing alright, regardless of money spent, I peronally don’t see a reason to change it - not just because someone else might want a shot at it. The site is still relatively young and establishing itself…a big shakeup in leadership could be risky at this point, especially if people start feeling slighted or overlooked. Manny seems like a diplomatic guy, and that’s always good to have around when the team is split on a decision and someone has to step up to the plate and have ‘final say’.

Of course, if team members feel they should have more say or sway in how things go here, that’s another matter and should be discussed with feelings getting aired. Though, I maintain someone has to ‘lead’ and it might as well be the guy who’s been doing it up til now. Not saying someone else might not be just as good a leader, but as they say - if it ain’t broke…

As to alternate funding, there’s no huge shame in having a paypal button or other ways to generate revenue. I know EOT has a supporter account and designation and that has worked well for them. I think seeing that you do have a team of people here, seeing if you can scrape up the funds between you first is ideal as it is one of the advantages of having multiple owners to a site - even if everyone can’t give the same, it’ll help take the burden off one person. At the same time, team members who can’t give much or any at all at this time shouldn’t be made to feel like they’re lesser members because of it.
I used a paypal link for a while a few years back when I kept being shut down for bandwidth overages. It was surprising to see how generous loyal visitors can be, how much they to are loving what you’re doing, and how easily they’re willing to help keep you online - for nothing more than a thank-you at that. Once I got better hosting, I took it down so maybe you could just do fundraising drives once a year for site renewals for something like that. Sometimes people are concerned that if you get more than what you need for hosting that you’ll pilfer it. So just be sure to have a disclaimer that all funds recieve will go into the site somehow - hosting, domains, sweepstake funding, etc.

That said, I won’t be able to help it this time around. I’m already preparing to let one domain and hosting package (out of the three packages I have going now) expire this year, as the move we’re making will make our budget very tight - our mortgage is going to double, easy. I’ll be lucky to keep my two main sites and domains online through that! I might have to resort to a paypal link myself :wink:

Good luck sorting this out and I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds on this one. I just hope everyone remembers why they joined the team and are satisfied to be a part - large or small - of this project to uniquely involve fans in a site made for other fans.

14

Chris here…

steps into burning building :wink:

OK guys, having had all of a really crappy day to think about this, I’ve been able to give this issue some thought. If you’re not into long, rambling and somewhat redundant posts, I suggest you look away now, LOL! :slight_smile:

OK, first of all, on the subject of site “ownership” and the issue of buying the site - can I first of all preface this by saying that these comments aren’t personal against you, Mark, they’re just general comments from my viewpoint. Although ultimately someone does have to “own” the actual empty webspace on which this site is built, I’m going to be completely candid and say that I think for one person to have actual out-and-out ownership, it needs to be for the right reason. Now, I definitely believe you, Mark, when you say that you have the site’s best interests at heart, and I also agree that you would more than likely have a great deal of business experience to bring to bear in the “business” side of the site. But - I am also going to be candid (and apologise if I cause offence, because I promise none is meant) and say that I think that if someone takes over that side of things from MannyF (or whoever), it needs to be for a different reason than to cultivate contacts for their own collecting pursuits. If that happens as a by-product, all well and good, but if that’s the reason for doing it, then that for me is the wrong reason. Again, I apologise for my bluntness - I’ve had a crap day and so I’m not in a particularly eloquent frame of mind - hopefully what I’m saying here doesn’t cause undue offence… :slight_smile:

On the subject of site leadership vs. site ownership - OK, a couple of comments here. I definitely like Neil’s suggestion of several of the team co-owning the site - for me that fits perfectly with the original ethos of the site, which is that it’s a team effort first and foremost. I would love to contribute to this, but am very much constrained by my financial situation (more on that in a moment). However, I definitely think that if finances are an issue in any way, it’s something to consider. It doesn’t have to be done in any formalised way - each year when the hosting comes up, we can all just have a general chat over a cup of tea or a beer to the effect of “Who is able/wants to contribute to this this year?” :slight_smile:

On the subject of who should be Site Leader, where I would respectfully disagree with my good friend Neil is that I personally think MannyF is ideally suited to this role, and whatever happens I personally would like to see him continue. I say this not because I have an issue with anyone else taking this role, but because I genuinely, sincerely believe that MannyF has all of the qualities needed to fulfil the task.

Now, in terms of the role of the Site Leader, my take on this is this. We are, first and foremost, a team project. That was always the intention of the site, that was always the ethos by which we’ve run, and in fact it was only to try and maximise productivity and avoid folks locking horns over certain issues that we implemented Neil’s (excellent) suggestion to create Section Managers. The brilliant thing about the way this has been put into effect is that in the main, no one lets this go to their heads and we all still function as a team, making suggestions and providing input into all sections, it’s simply a case that someone has the final say on a particular section. However, for site-wide decisions, someone needs to have the final, final say on this, and why I passionately believe that MannyF excels at this is because he is very good at making decisions for the overall good of the site (even on issues where some team members may have a differing opinion) in a way that reflects the viewpoints of the rest of the team. He doesn’t ride roughshod over team members’ views - and, whilst I actually think this would be true of pretty much anyone leading the site, somehow Manny just has a way of doing these things that tends to sit well with me! :slight_smile:

On the issue of funding - I really wish I could contribute more, at times I actually feel quite guilty that I don’t. As I’m sure most of you guys know, I’m forced to live on disability benefits, and as such don’t have much income at all - however, as I said to a couple of you guys earlier, if ever my circumstances change I will be more than happy to contribute something if needed. :slight_smile:

Hopefully no one is offended by my comments in this post, they aren’t meant to be offensive, but just reflect my perspective on things - I hope that this is OK.

Take care, and thanks for listening! :slight_smile:

15

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for Manny to continue his role and nothing I have said is a slight against you Manny! :frowning:

I just thought that those financing the site could have the final say on site wide issues. This doesn’t stop you being a part of this (has you have funded the site for 2 years and that should entitle you to be a share holder by default)

I still think splitting the site costs can work and my offer is still there to help out with the hosting cost if need be. However, whatever is decided I’m fine with :slight_smile:

16

Chris here…

Yeah, reading back over my post it does sound as though I’m inferring that you said that - I apologise unreservedly, Neil, I didn’t mean to suggest that! :frowning: Basically what I was saying (and probably the only real area where my opinion differs from yours) is that I think whoever “owns” the actual physical webspace upon which this site is built, I think MannyF should continue to be the Site Leader (just him on his own), just because I think he’s done a terrific job so far! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

17

hmm …

I am willing to contribute to site expenses as always just let me know how much. I honestly think that Neils idea of splitting it up is good (at least I think he said that) that way no one is footing the whole cost every year.

Anyway what about a raffle and people buy tickets for or something. I’m sure I can come up with something to use as a prize as I have a ton of stuff. Maybe a loose Thunderwings liono I dont know (as I only have 2) but something along those lines. You think people would go for that or no. Honestly Im not sure if people would

18

Angie I’m a man of few words and perhaps thats my downfall or perhaps not. But i have to say that i admire your response and truthfully I dont know if it couldve been said better. Nobody and I mean nobody new or old is in my eyes a lesser member because of finances. I along with everyone do this as a way of carrying on whatevr it is we find special about Thundercats. I mean after all its just a cartoon but to some of us it is more than that. It’s lessons learned, its memories that come back time and time again from childhood but sometimes we tend to overlook that. It doesnt hurt my feelings if one or 1 million people contribute, Im gonna do my share wether it is by providing content, exclusive news, interviews, anything to bring fans the best and if it means me saving up or scrounging by whatever means to keep the site alive I will do so. I dont expect everyone to contribute financially but I wanted to bring it forward to everyone, that however seemed like it was a decision that shouldve been kept on the admin side of things rather than team wise. Its not to make people feel less because in the end everyone has contributed one way or another. But I think I have realized that financial talk among the team has reached a point were it has to be taken care of not as a team decision but rather as a decision by one or two individuals. Therefor here is my take on this. I will back up Manny financially with hosting,domain and any site incurred fees. If Manny cannot for any reason incurr in the expenses I will cover those expenses and if neither us can cover them then we will find ways to do so, that being said I will share/take on those expenses with Manny. Unless Manny disapproves of my suggestion,financial support for the website will be done either by me or him. Any contributions done by team members will go towards things like giveaways, etc. NOT site upkeep expenses. We will find ways to fund the website. I know this sounds rough but its for the best to keep this sort of responsibility limited. I’m sorry about bringing such a touchy subject but my intent was always to bring everyone together on this. I’ll back Manny 100% financially so long as I have the capabilities to do so that way evreyone can concentrate on other aspects of the site rather than financial aspects. My intent is and always be good. Im sorry if I offended anybody with my posts

19

He-Fan - you and I are king and queen of the long posts! LOL I love it. Well said, too.

I also forgot to add my disclaimer that I hope neither Neil or Mark are offended by my remarks. None of them were meant to disparage their abilities or potential and I’ve never had a personal issue with either of you. Like others have said, I too have no doubt that Mark’s intentions are noble.

My bottom line is, over all other points, that if you start doleing out extra or special incentives and priveleges for team members to support the site financially, then folks like He-Fan aren’t going to get the chance to experience that being that, by no fault of his own, he’s very limited in finances. As could be the case with others here. Keeping the bills paid is very important, and anybody who can on the team particularly, should give what they can each year within reason of their own budgets. I will maintain that I think it’s a mistake and could harbor ill will to single out big contributors, seems as though apparently Manny’s current status as a leader of sorts was not directly attributed to his paying the bills up to this point. At least, that’s what I thought I read earlier in this thread and I’ve certainly never heard him tooting his own horn in that regard…if not for this members-only board I wouldn’t have known who paid what so far. I just figured Manny got the job for his experience with web and html, and his diplomatic and laid back demeanor, too.

Some might say how is offering incentives and spiffy titles to forum members for contributing different than doing the same for team members? True, some forum members might donate without all those bells and whistles - and maybe they should want to simply because they enjoy the site and want to be a part of help to keep it online. However, they’re not obligated so dangling a carrot isn’t all that unusual to nudge them along.
As team members though, we’ve made a commitment to this site by either offering our time, advice, knowledge, materials, skills, and/or money to the cause. We are obligated then, in some way or another, to the overall health and well-being here. That’s our incentive along with the distinction of being on the Team.

In short, I too hope we all do what we do here for the right reasons.

Edit (because other people posted while I was typing up the above!):

Matt, I like your idea of a raffle a lot. That would be handy if ever TCL wanted to raise money for site-related expenses or future sweepstakes etc.

MannyC, I think it’s good to have this discussion and see the varying opinions on it. I’d reconsider making financial backing a closed matter altogether as that IS part of your advantage here of having a team. It just needs discussion - and this one so far has been very civil and frank, and we know where people stand and what they expect and that’s great. All we need to do is decide how to do it and what it means when you do donate. That’s all.

Heck, you could set up a paypal account that only team members know about so we can go donate anonymously whatever we can afford and then if and when there’s any left over after the bills for the year are paid, that either gets rolled over for next year or it could be agreed that it extra funds can be spend on ‘extras’ for the site…to purchase items for giveaways and so on.
At any rate, this way nobody will know what each other gave (and therefore, nobody can feel they have a bigger financial stake in the site than anyone else) and the people who can’t give much if at all won’t feel bad about the rest of the team knowing they’re strapped. It’s an idea.
Anyway, whatever is decided is fine by me, I’m just yammering on as usual :lol: As long as at the end of it, we all still get along and get things done, it’s all good.

Thanks for hearing me out.

20

Chris here…

Just coming back to this thread, as some excellent points have been raised! :slight_smile:

Angie, I think so many of your comments here are right on the money - as I said to MannyC on Skype last night (at least, before a power blackout caused me to lose my broadband connection, LOL!), I actually think it’s good to raise the issue of funding for the site, I don’t consider that it should necessarily be a closed book. Even though I do at times feel guilty because of my lack of contribution in that stake, nonetheless it doesn’t bother me the issue being discussed because I think it’s an important issue. With no disrespect meant to MannyC or anyone else, I actually don’t feel that any issue should be discussed behind closed doors, even though I definitely understand and very much appreciate the good intentions behind that - I think it’s good for the team to discuss all of these things! :slight_smile:

In terms of the TCats raffle idea - I really like it! If there was a juicy enough prize or prizes, I think it could definitely generate some interest. Also, backtracking some ways, can I also add that I have no problem with adding a discreet button to the front page encouraging people to donate to the site - whilst I wouldn’t want to make a big deal out of it, the principle of doing that really doesn’t bother me. I guess in my situation, you learn to just take whatever you can get however you can, LOL! :smiley:

Angie, I think your suggestion about setting up a PayPal account or similar where team members can just plonk money in anonymously is a terrific idea, at least in principle, and maybe this would serve as another option if the need ever arises…? :slight_smile:

For all that it’s had its negative elements, I actually regard this as a very positive thread, and it’s great to see so many intelligent, well-thought posts - and then there’s mine!! :wink:

One final thing - Angie, even though my username is “He-Fan” (something of a trademark!), I really like being called Chris by my friends, and I’d definitely like to count you as one of those! :slight_smile: Definitely not a big deal, but, if you wanted to call me by my real name, you’d be welcome to - even though I must admit force of habit makes me still want to call you Purrsia, LOL! :smiley:

Take care… :slight_smile: