Stop 'reinventing' Thundercats!

Hi everyone. I wonder how many of you share my sentiment at the moment?

I’ve been rewatching my TCat DVDs and it occurs to me there is a very good reason why the show lives on, when so many other contemporaries have faded in the memory. That reason is that it’s an amazing show.

The design of the characters is wonderful, the music is excellent and everything about the show is first class.

I’m a Graphic Designer and it is mind-boggling how well the show is designed. You only have to see the intro sequence to see very little matches it in terms of quality. How often do you watch things from the eighties and cringe. Never with Thundercats!

The reason I mention it is that I have a problem with recent Thundercat projects that seem to want to ‘improve’ on the show. For instance, the Wildstorm comics a few years ago weren’t bad for story, but the artwork had to ‘go one stage further’. Then the failed movie had to ‘reinvent for a modern audience’. I’m even a little disappointed with the Hard Hero sculpts. So very close to cartoon accurate but they had to add the fur and other ‘tweaks’ to ‘improve’ on everything.

I really think this shows a little arrogance to the brand. The LJN line was so fantastic because (on the whole) the sculpts are so accurate. It really was like having the cartoon characters in your hand.

Sorry, not meaning to moan too much, but do you know what I mean when I say I don’t think Thundercats needs improving?

Thanks
Dave

Chris here…

I think what it comes down to is that a lot of artists (whether they be Wildstorm’s comic artists or the folks sculpting the new statues) have their own “vision” of the characters and so want to interpret them in their own way - which is fair enough, I definitely don’t have a problem with that. :slight_smile:

Where I do agree with you, however, is how well the show stands up visually compared to a lot of its contemporaries - and, I also don’t like seeing radical redesigns such as we saw with the WB movie concept art, because I feel that the original designs are so good, it’s just change for the sake of change… :frowning:

Take care… :slight_smile:

About your Thundercats artistic comments i need only mention two basic names who were involved in the art development process:

art director Katsuhito Akiyama from the Pacific Animation Corporation,a company that would later go on to form studio Ghibli which is responsible for masterpieces like Princess Mononoke,Spirited away of Hayao Miyazaki and Grave of fireflies of Isao Takahata considered as one of the best anti-war and graphically emotional depictions of the consequences of War on society and individuals. Katsuhito has directed a few anime like the two volume OVA Sol Bianca notable for the fluid animation and detailed spacecraft designs also the novel adaptation of the yaoi anime Ai no Kusabi in 1992.

The second name goes by Masayuki who directed 2 episodes of Hideaki Anno’s worldwide acclaimed Neon Genesis Evangelion,he also directed the 2 recent Evangelion movies receiving raving reviews.

Thundercats artwork in my opinion should be and it is an anime work as far as the design and visual style is concerned, it has all the elements relating to this genre without sharing one strict,common art style as it is evident on some almost identical anime series which follow the same exact artistic pattern. Check out for instance the exaggerated physical features like the big hair,linear evenly muscular body or the eye style draw technique that allows to show emotions distinctly.The large eyes detailed in color variation,mixture of dark-light shade and tone color emphasis give a certain depth on the character. The face expressions denoting moods,thoughts and the internal world, were one of thundercats big stylistic achievement without distorting
the countenance when exhibiting a particular feeling like fear, anger,laughter,determination. With this technique the face image retained its original vivid icon but on the same time emitted an optical diversity necessary in order to captivate further the viewer.Anime scenes place particular emphasis on three-dimensional views,background depiction of the surroundings and environment,Camera angles and movements on locations, lighting play on the protagonist as well as camera effects such as panning,zooming,panoramic moving back and forth on the image creating exact,convincing action sequences.Off the top of my hat i remember at the anointment trials Second day episode when Lion-o talks with Jaga prior to racing Cheetara, a face-up, close caption of Lion-o with perfect detail and drawn “pose to pose” with very precise details and intense colour or in William Overguard’s Fireballs of Plun-dar moment when Tygra tied on the 4-winds machine and the sun is reaching the solar mirror but Lion-o at the nick of time breaks it apart,really perfect lightening effect and computer animation. Additionally, techniques rendering unmistakable representations of what is about to happen in the following scene and dynamic illusions of movements of inanimate,still objects as clothes,weapons,cars, body-parts,for example the Thundertank’s wheels circular mechanical turn, convey even more realistic impressions. I believe this animated cartoon was created with a blend of two different “worlds”,each one contributing at what it had best to offer,The Japanese animation artwork and the American science fiction-adventure storyboard crossover bore in fruition the Thundercats concept.

The recent Wildstorm comics were good because even though they were loosely connected to the series they presented new storylines with innovative ideas going beyond the 130 episodes and bridging the gap of what could have happened in the future if Lion-o had aged and Mumm-ra had taken full control of Thundera, i liked the distinctly mature approach of “the Return” and Wilycat’s corruption process in “Reclaiming Thundera”. I am a big comic fan and i would love to see a canon material directly referenced to the Destruction of Thundera by the Mutants a little bit more explored than the 5-page Ford Lytle Gilmore’s story on Villains and Heroes. Mcguiness pencils,were closer to the original cartoon whereas Bene’s draws reminded me more like classic action comic artwork of superheroes. My personal favorite which comprised all of the Thundercats prime elements without deviating was HammerHand’s Revenge, I enjoyed much Fiona Avery’s script as i did in her work at JMS Rising Stars Bright but especially in Voices of the dead.

My friend,over the new Statue issue which has raised a huge concern about how accurate it is, i have already written down some thoughts but i can’t understand why so many people dislike it?..i disagree with you on that, i am very fond of it!!:liono

I don’t really mind the WildStorm comics or the new HH Lion-O statue (can’t wait to get it!). However I’m not a big fan of some of the “movie design cocepts or whatever” that have been popping up on the net and on this forum. All the ThunderCats characters have a certain look and feel to them (skin/ fur and hair colors, clothing, personality etc.) and me thinks you can only deviate so much from that basic design without changing the character completely. So for me: Yes to the Hard Hero Lion-O and NO to this:

http://www.thundercatslair.org/uploaded_images/lionoconept-776302.jpg

Till next time,
Justin

I totally agree with you, the above picture is not pertaining to Thundercats and Lion-o at all. I guess they tried to give a shi-fi mature tinge on Lion-o but it deviates too much from the original concept, There is no way WB to stick to this draft,it´s like you are watching sth completely different. Does anyone know the most probable release date for the statue? i read the interview and they say sooner than March 2010 but i´ve also heard it will come out this December?:liono THANKS

OK, this might be a bit off topic but I think it might relate to this thread. Call me an idealist but to me the 80’s Thundercats is the only Thundercats. I’m still having some doubt about the statue line. Yeah, its pretty close to the original but it lacks that “anime” touch, which I think is necessary to completely capture the essence of the Thundercats. I strongly believe that if your gonna base the sculpts off of the actual concepts then you should keep it classic without any tweaks or “updates” to the likeness or feel of the material. Lion-O’s fur on the upcoming statue for example still bothers me. I for one am not looking for realistic character details to show off todays sculptors “talent” depth for detail. I’m more concerned about the sculptors talent and depth in their ability to capture the true essence of the character. I simply want a Lion-O that looks and feels like Lion-O that graced our tv’s and imaginations as kids. Look at the MOTU classics line! I kinda wish I never bought the 200X merchandise but you live and learn. Less is more. I cringe when I see all those Transformers statues that are “re-imagined” or “reinvented” with all this dirt detail or extra guns/ different body proportions and yada-yada-yada…yawn! They all look like customs mass produced to profit off of ignorant collectors who’ll buy anything with the Transformers logo… They just don’t carry the likeness and raw nostalgic charm of the property any more and are driven by company greed. They become just another version. Hard Hero came extremely close with their 14" Optimus / Megatron cartoon-accurate statues and I’m pleased to own both. However, once something with such an 80’s vibe like Thundercats FINALLY comes along, you need to get it right because its following is nowhere near the size of Transformers or even MOTU, which means the likelihood of ignorant collectors picking up merchandised crap just won’t stick or last. Anyway, so thats how I feel :slight_smile: Hope I didn’t offend anyone here but I feel like companies prey on impulse collectors for profit and more cluttering junk on ebay.

I agree with the points made - personally, I think that what made ThunderCats so special was that it wasn’t as mad with special effects and CGI as most cartoons are today (and the ‘Disney’ effect with going overboard on emotion). The animation was slick and very much based off anime but didn’t try and go too far with it - cartoons were great back in and concentrated on character development, action scenes and general fun.

It was something kids could dig - it even had it’s emotional moments. What a fantastic show it was - you don’t need to CGI it and make it impressive. In fact, I don’t think there needs to be a movie. It just needs to be left alone, IMO.

How about that Ninja Scroll/Animatrix/Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust/Wicked City guy Yoshikata Kawajari for the show? he’s an awesome character designer and animation director.

To me, Thundercats epitomized cartoons in the 1980’s. I also find it arrogant for a team to believe they could re-design the characters and revamp a new show based on the old show, and have it be met with the same success. Lightning does not strike twice. The original show was huge, a phenomenom, to think that you could just home run a new show is ill advised. There is no way to surpass the greatness of the old show with a new relaunch, the best plan would be a prequel that fits in with the original story line. Being a fan of the show in the 80s, 90s and today, I don’t want to watch Lion-O mince around in a shinier, more “modern” get up questing after the “Stones of power,” or get to know Tygra as his brother. On top of that, the producer stated that when we see the character design, we will immediately think its a relaunch. The mythology will no longer span over “three planets” we are told. So will Mumm-ra originate on Thundera? A mute Snarf? The Snarf character is supposed to be hated/loved!