On goeth the mud-slinging... :(

Site Discussion Team Discussion
1

Hi guys,

Well, I know by drawing this to the team’s attention I’m actually opening something of a can of worms, and I would say that I did actually debate with myself long and hard before mentioning it (even asking someone for advice before doing so). However, I kind-of feel that this is something that the team should at least know about. I very much hope that no one is upset or offended by me raising this - if so, LMK and I’ll delete the thread. :slight_smile:

As most of you guys know, at the start of this year, Celesta (tcatartist) left the team involved in running this site under what I can only describe as regretful circumstances. I personally felt that a lot of her comments and actions were rather out-of-order, and whilst I’m not saying that there weren’t areas where her grievances had a legitimate basis, I found her rather (for want of a better word) melodramatic approach to be rather unhelpful in sorting out the issues that she had. :frowning:

Shortly after Celesta had left, I think all of us on the team (regardless of our personal views on the matter) had, kind-of by unspoken consent, decided to put the issue behind us. Since that time I think we as a team have behaved in an exemplorary fashion, never saying a word out of place, and even giving both Celesta’s own website and Celesta’s involvement in the S1V1 documentary a shout-out in the two podcast episodes. :slight_smile:

Now, to be fair, even though Celesta’s departure was somewhat, shall we say, “dramatic”, I hadn’t actually been aware of her making any out-of-place comments either. However, last night I took a look at the blog area of her website, and discovered this reference:

I started with synopses writing to help out Purrsia with her project at Return to Thundera. Then, I offered to fill in the blanks, so to say, for Thundercats Lair even though my job over there was to be the illustrator for the encyclopedia section. A change in the cartoon section management happened and I was then voted in to take over that position. That section was terribly ignored despite the cartoon being the reason for the site. I felt it was a priority to get the synopses finished. In that process, I found out I had a knack for writing the synopses.

The full entry can be viewed here: http://catscratches.thundercatsillustrated.net/

Now, OK, I have absolutely no problem if Celesta wants to reference where she honed her undeniable skills for synopsis writing, and in the interests of being fair I have to say her comments could be worse. But, nonetheless to me there is still a lot of unnecessary, anti-TCL content in that post that really sticks in my throat, not least of all because Celesta knows damn well the issues that have surrounded the management of the Cartoon Section and why that section has proven to be such a difficult one to nail down. Coupled with these comments, she has systematically gone through her site and removed every website link to this one. :frowning:

Contrast her behaviour with that of Tim (voice_guy) - Tim was one of the founder members of this site, but was (understandably) dismissed from the team because of his lack of work. To be honest, Tim is someone who I could understand having a legitimate grievance with us here, yet every time I personally have spoken to him he has been full of praise and support for this site. :slight_smile:

So there you go - I’ll confess, a large part of this post is basically just a rant on my part, but I also felt that the team should know about what one of our former colleagues is saying about us publicly. My own advice FWIW is that we should actually just turn a blind eye to it for the time being and play “the bigger man”, but also monitor the situation - I certainly don’t think we should rush in on the defensive. Nonetheless, I am very disappointed that someone I once felt I could call a friend feels it necessary to sling mud in this way. :frowning:

Take care, everyone, and thanks for listening! :slight_smile:

2

I had to stop myself from sending her an email and simply telling her stop slinging mud at us. I’ve been close to putting her on the banned list, but being that tthere was a lack of reason to even doing so I didnt and havent. This mud slinging puts me one step closer to doing so. I think though that before i do that I’m just gonna step back for now, I cant put myself at the same level as her. After all this is a cartoon site for Christ’s sake and why sling mud at us…thats just unnecessary

3

I’m sorry but what part of her post is mud slinging? I read what she said twice and in no way shape or form do I disagree with her, or think it is in any way a dig at us?

I’m just confused how this could be seen as her trying to be offensive?

4

The part where she says “That section was terribly ignored despite the cartoon being the reason for the site.” I find it hard to swallow that the cartoon section was terribly ignored, besides why even throw TCL in the mix just to say that the cartoon section was ignored. That in itself is a slap in the face for everyone who has worked so hard.

5

Chris here…

I pretty much agree with all of that - at the end of the day, all she actually needed to reference was that she wrote up a bunch of synopsies for Angie’s site and then a bunch for TCL - period. Throwing all the rest of her comments into the mix is just unnecessary IMO. Like I said in my original post, to be fair her comments could be worse, but nonetheless they leave a nasty taste in my mouth - maybe “mud slinging” is a bit strong, “airing dirty laundry” might be a better term.

In terms of her comments about the Cartoon Section - “ignored” seems to be Celesta’s favourite word, given how often she uses it when another term would be more accurate. The Cartoon Section was never “ignored”, it’s been subject to a lot of unfortunate circumstances - first with Tim in charge wasting time working on a design that was abandoned when he should have been putting together content (with me at the same time unexpectedly up to my neck in stuff, which I did explain to MannyF and the team in general at the time), then with Celesta in charge of the Cartoon Section advising me to focus for the time being on my work on the Comic Section, then with MannyF in charge and with the site in general kind-of adrift, and then with Kyle & myself in charge (where she was offered co-management of that section with Kyle & me and declined). To say that the Cartoon Section has been “ignored” is like finding fault with someone for not resigning from work and making this site a full-time job. shrugs That’s my issue with her comments.

Anyway - again I’m questioning the wisdom of posting this thread up and have half a mind to delete it, not because of your comments, Mark, but because on reflection I don’t think the team really needs another Celesta debate - I think there are those of us on all sides who have strong opinions on Celesta’s behaviour and attitude where those opinions aren’t going to shift, so I wonder whether it’s a discussion best left buried - so, if you see this thread has vanished tomorrow, you’ll know the reason why, LOL! :wink: Nonetheless, I remain deeply unhappy with the situation… :frowning:

Take care… :slight_smile:

6

I’d say let her bury herself in her own dirty laundry. That laundry stinks and I’m starting to get nauseous. Sad that someone so respectable in the Thundercats Community has resorted to bringing back old s-h-i-t. Celesta can be the greatest person, Ive experienced it myself but the s-h-i-t she does at times makes me wonder. Make this a lesson for us to work 10 times as hard…because one thing I love to do is to prove people wrong

7

Okay I get it Chris, I can see how you guys took offense, but her comment was very “history” minded, certainly not a dig at us and the site as it stands now. We’re certainly not ignoring the section but it has always been a section that was running behind for us, which is probably part of the reason why it stings when she talks about it.

Let’s keep in mind that some people are still friends/friendly with Celesta and as you said there’s not much point in debating her or her opinions of the site here.

We’re a great team right now and we’re moving the site forward significantly. Anybody who has issue with the site doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on… because anybody can see that we’re running a solid show here.

8

Hopefully, this won’t be a ginormous post.

I can see why those remarks can sting, but I’m with Mark in thinking she probably didn’t mean it as the smack in the face it seems. I say probably, because although Celesta and I have been on friendly terms again for some time we did have a big falling out a few years ago, she can be tempermental as hell (not sure the details of her departure here, but it sounds like you all got a taste of that first hand haha), and she keeps as close friends two fandom members (who are registered on this board but so far have behaved themselves) that nobody else in the fandom that knows their history will deal with because they are absolute - for lack of way to sugar coat it - and complete trolling asshats. While I stop short of labeling Celesta a troll, they do share a love of drama so you never know. You could say I’m of two minds when it comes to Celesta, and while I’ll always respect her work, part of me can’t respect her as well as a person since we had our issues. When it gets so ‘high school’ over - as was pointed out - the freakin’ internet and a cartoon site, respect takes a nose dive. In fairness, I’ve jumped into my shared of drama too, so it doesn’t hurt my feelings if the view is mutual no both sides :lol:
At any rate, if anyone wants to hear the gory details, skype at me sometime. Otherwise, I’ll spare ye.

As for the cartoon section, don’t beat yourselves up. I asked for help on the synopsis page for my site because it literally was taking years to wrap up :duh: You get busy, you get distracted and there’s just too much to do and not enough time. She didn’t mention that :wink: By comparison you guys aren’t doing too bad and you might as well take time and do it the way you want it to be done instead of rushing through. And indeed, it is a cartoon site and not the be-all end all of existance so things will take shape in due time.

I guess this is one of the funky notes about working as a team - getting those personalities to mesh and agreements made. Hopefully, nothing worse gets said because Chris was right - she could have said a lot worse so in conclusion I don’t think it warrants a response from anyone. For one, if she is fishing for fandom drama you’re serving her what she wants - a heated reaction. If she wasn’t, then you guys will just look like you’re either fishing for drama or need a thicker skin. My two cents is, as long as she doesn’t get personally insulting toward anyone in public, let it go.

As to why she removed your links, of course it’s her right, but that does seem rather petty. A good site is a good site, even if you don’t agree with those that run it. That’s a shame :frowning:

9

I offered to fill in the blanks, so to say, for Thundercats Lair even though my job over there was to be the illustrator for the encyclopedia section.

How rude! :x She could have at least posted a link back to our site here! lol

Seriously guys, there is no such thing as bad publicity in my opinion and I’m glad she posted this up as it’s gives us a clear mention :slight_smile:

That section was terribly ignored despite the cartoon being the reason for the site.

Now that I can get a little bit annoyed at. Thundercatslair started out as a reference guide to the LJN Thundercats toyline foremost. The cartoon series was definately not the sole reason for the site being created!

But I do share both Mark and Angie opinion of this, that what she said wasn’t that bad and isn’t worth even mentioning back to her.

You did the right thing by posting this up. The whole point of the Team forum and it being private is to discuss site issues. Site issues include more than just ongoing and completed work :wink:

With being a team, it is a good thing to know what is going on around us and what others think of certain issues as well as people.

I disagree with you. If someone has something on there mind and is worried about certain comments posted concerning us they should by all means feel free to discuss it with the team. We are all mature adults here, who stick to facts so nothing offensive or degrading would ever be said about Celesta or anyone for that matter on this forum. I’ve not had a single problem with Celesta since she left the team and doubt I will to be honest.

For a while Angie, the Cartoon section was a bit of soar point with many of us. We all kinda found it a bit embarassing! lol

However back then as far as I recall, it wasn’t just about folks having a lack of time to work on it (although Chris was busy like he said) For the most part it had a lack of direction, until one day I decided enough was enough (MannyF might have been on his break at this point in time?) and I organised a Team Meeting. From that meeting we discussed what direction the cartoon section could take and the sort of content we would like to view on a Thundercats site. Some excellent suggestions were made all around and to this day, I still regard that specific Team meeting as the turning point of this site and the most productive one we have ever had!

Didn’t we also decide that Kyle and Chris would be in charge of the cartoon section at this same meeting? Anyway from then on, I feel personally that the Cartoon section has since turned into one of the best parts of this site! It’s something that every person who worked on it (however small their contribution) should be proud of!

Both Chris and Kyle’s work has been nothing but brilliant, both working extremely hard. A section I was most ashamed of, has now turned into the one I’m most proud of personally speaking and is definately now my favourite part of the site with the great information Chris writes for each episode in the episode guide and the art Kyle posts for the Encyclopedia! :slight_smile: