Official ThunderCats Lair 3.0 Discussion (Updated 07.21.10)

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Hey guys, I’ve slowly started to get back to focusing on the site. I’m trying to be more organized with the stages of the relaunch, so I kind of wanted to share a couple thoughts and start a new thread that’s dedicated to the development of the site before I go any further.

I just wanted to elaborate on a few things before I start my endless nights working the site again. As always, I make these posts welcoming feedback from everyone.

I’m off today, so I’ve kind of been thinking about this thread the whole day. In other words, my GF is busy! LOL.

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This is a relaunch of the site, not a redesign.

I just wanted to touch on this for a little bit. I’ve thought about this a lot and it makes sense to differentiate the two. When we first created the site, we launched the first version of ThunderCats Lair. When we decided to change the layout and call it version 2.0, I would consider that a redesign. The major difference is that we are using a totally different system of how the site is going to be updated and used by the team. When I first mentioned using Wordpress, I called it a redesign, but after a year away, I think this is going to be a major undertaking by all of us and it’s going to feel like we’re starting a new site again because of how large the site is and how much content we have.

So in other words, when I talk about ThunderCats Lair 3.0, it’s essentially going to be like launching the site again. Looking at it through this perspective gives me the motivation and excitement that I had when we started the site. Hopefully that makes sense.

This is going to be a huge undertaking by all of us, which leads to the next topic…

Going to Need Everyone to Help!

Chris mentioned this in another thread, but one of things that we excelled at is working as a team. We’ll have disagreements and we may even be upset time to time, but at the end of the day, it’s the passion for ThunderCats and our friendship that keeps us together.

That being said, I’m going to need help from everyone once again. I know we’ve become busy with our offline lives in recent years. We’re all a victim of it…I believe it’s part of growing up. However, in order for this relaunch to be successful, we’re going to have to commit to spending more time on the site during the relaunch process. I’m not saying we need to give up spare time to work on the site everyday, but we need to at the minimum, post on the forums and provide feedback about the relaunch.

We just need to find that one thing that will help motivate us to get excited. That’s what I’m going to do.

Streamlining Logos, Watermarking, Spelling, Etc.

Last thing I want to bring up (for now) is the streamlining of the site. This is just my opinion of course, but I would love to be able to have a brand new logo for the relaunch to show the evolution of the site and how far it has come. In addition, I’d really like to have it so that all the watermarks being used for the site are all the same. The watermark that was used for Mark’s Hard Hero images looks fantastic and I would definitely like to make an official watermark that looks something similar to that. What do you guys think?

As for the spelling, I really wanted to focus on how we want to present the site to other outlets. I’ve been to a couple of sites that link to us and we’ve been spelled Thundercatslair, ThunderCatsLair, or ThunderCats Lair. I know this might be nitpicking and forgive me if I’m making a big deal about this, but if the team writes it one way, everyone else will do the same.

Our influence on ThunderCats news and rumors has steadily grown in the past few years, whether it be about the movie or about the statues, and by being able to streamline these small things, I think it will make the site much more presentable to the outlets outside the ThunderCats community.

I remember reading an article from one site that linked to us and they spelled Jerry O’Flaherty as Jerry O’Flagerty. I was dumbfounded about who could get the spelling wrong…and shockingly, they got the spelling from our site.

Essentially, it’s better to be on the same page. If we do it one way, it becomes a ripple effect.

Again, I hope that makes sense.

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Being able to decide on these things first should hopefully make the rest of the development one step easier.

I’d love to have a meeting with everyone, but unless we can get everyone to attend, I’d rather discuss it here so that everyone can participate.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Manny I’m pumped to see your thoughts taking shape like this.

Could you give us an idea of how you see the pages being converted to the relaunch site? Because when you say we’ll all need to work on this I imagine that’s because we’ll be converting existing pages over to the relaunched format/structure.

How will that work, will we need to become familiar with some sort of site builder?

Cheers,
Mark

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Hey Mark, I was trying to look for the thread that talked about the new design that was started when I first discussed a site revamp, but couldn’t find it. In any event, I think the process of converting the current content into the new layout is definitely going to be the most time consuming, but I kind of have a plan of making it easier on everyone. I think finalizing the section’s layout needs to be completed so that we don’t need to worry about that aspect anymore. Being able to focus on one thing at a time is key to avoiding frustration, stress, and reducing redundancy. We need to be organized! I’ll elaborate more on this down the line.

[system]

Chris here…

Really stoked about this thread! You may remember that, when the subject of a redesign (or relaunch) of this site very first came up, I was the team’s biggest sceptic. Well, since that time I’ve done a lot (and I mean a lot) of study about website design and the like, and what I’ve come to realise is that this site is in desperate need of an update - the Internet has moved on since we launched this site at the end of 2005, and we need to move with it. Which is another way of saying, Manny, you were right and I was wrong!

Manny, I think you make some excellent points in your opening post, and I’d like to throw my weight behind everything you’ve said. Just going into detail:

Watermarks - do you mean the watermark shown here:

http://www.thundercatslair.org/merchandise/statues/lion-o-front.jpg

If so, you can thank Kyle for that one! And yes, I’d love to see that or something similar applied throughout the site on anything and everything that needs watermarking. All of the materials I have on the site with watermarks have been done “non-destructively” (i.e., I still have an unwatermarked version) and, whilst I must admit it would be an arduous task, I’d certainly be happy to re-do these over time with the new watermark!

Spelling - I agree completely. We started off using “TCL” a lot, now I’ve tried to get into the habit of always calling us either “ThunderCats Lair” or the full name, www.thundercatslair.org . I agree that this would be a good thing to do.

New logo - yep, again, I think this would be a worthwhile thing to look into. Something else I’ve discovered when studying website design, etc., is that “website refreshes” are good for both SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and also just generating a “buzz” around a site.

There was also some talk a while back about Kyle doing a new ThunderCats image for the header of the site, to replace the Lion-O image that’s up there currently? I’d love to see Kyle’s artwork represented in the header of this site.

In terms of time - I completely hear what you’re saying, Manny, and as this moves forward, I give you a cast-iron commitment that I will devote as much time to this as I can. I’ve worked hard over the past few months to try and give myself some pockets of space to devote to projects other than music, and one thing that has motivated me on that front is a desire to put more time and energy into this site.

I’m not sure what, if any, help you’re going to need with this, Manny, but I stand ready to assist in any way possible. Bear in mind that I now have a full working copy of Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended and so can edit and re-size graphics much faster and easier than before, and also have a lot more experience and knowledge of building websites than ever before.

I must admit that my knowledge of PHP (which is the coding system used for WordPress) is pretty rudimentary at best, but I have a workable knowledge of HTML, XHTML and CSS and am happy to assist on this front if required, both on my section(s) and, when those are completed, helping others of the team out as well.

Looking forward to seeing this happen!

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Yeah I really liked that watermark too and I think a new logo would be fantastic to go along with our relaunch.

A quick point about the relaunch… I am absolutely addicted to digg.com and I especially enjoy the way you can ‘digg’ other reader comments and then sort them by the number of diggs that others have given them. It makes for terrific reading.

Could we include this kind of feature on our pages so that people can comment directly into the page and then people can rate their responses or comments and you can sort them from most ‘diggs’ to least?

Because I think that’d be kick ass.

[system]

Chris here…

@grizzlor

Yeah I really liked that watermark too and I think a new logo would be fantastic to go along with our relaunch.

A quick point about the relaunch… I am absolutely addicted to digg.com and I especially enjoy the way you can ‘digg’ other reader comments and then sort them by the number of diggs that others have given them. It makes for terrific reading.

Could we include this kind of feature on our pages so that people can comment directly into the page and then people can rate their responses or comments and you can sort them from most ‘diggs’ to least?

Because I think that’d be kick ass.

I have to say that for myself personally there are still some pages that I’d prefer to see without that feature - but, I definitely think that it would be a valuable asset to things like the Episode Guide pages (no more having to copy-and-paste fan reviews from discussion threads on the forums, fans can input them straight onto the pages) and also as a means of adding fan reviews to each comic in the Comic Section, etc.

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

What would you guys say it is about EOT that makes their forum so successful? They have 95 members total and maybe 30 or so people who actually post around once a month. But in the short time since their site crashed they’ve had almost 12,000 posts vs. our 19,000 odd since we started our site.

What should we be doing differently to build up that level of forum activity?

[system]

Chris here…

@grizzlor

What would you guys say it is about EOT that makes their forum so successful? They have 95 members total and maybe 30 or so people who actually post around once a month. But in the short time since their site crashed they’ve had almost 12,000 posts vs. our 19,000 odd since we started our site.

What should we be doing differently to build up that level of forum activity?

IMO, EOT has that type of forum activity for a handful of reasons:

1. It’s been around much longer than we have, so people get in the habit of posting over there rather than somewhere else - in the same way that I’m registered over at both EOT and Angie’s forums, but do most of my posting here.

2. For some intangible reason, the site evokes a strong sense of loyalty from the people who post there.

3. They have a perception of being a more “relaxed” forum than we are. I personally think that EOT is an embarrassment to ThunderCats fandom - but, you can basically go over there and post almost anything you like, you might get into a drama or a flame war, but you’d be unlucky to get a Mod on your back. As a site, because of our own tastes + our connections to WB, we are very strict compared to EOT. Personally I think that that’s a good thing, but it does mean that those fans who like to post in a place where flame wars can just work their way through, the swear filter is turned off, and they can make adult jokes about Wilykit giving Lion-O a blowjob, are going to find a natural home there alongside those more sensible posters who want to talk sensibly about ThunderCats. So, in short, it’s quantity over quality.

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

I think there are a handful of very active posters who will talk endlessly about things way off topic. Any thread you start that is ThunderCats related ends up degenerating into some inside joke from 10 years ago.

The long threads usually have 3-4 posters just going on and on and on to the exclusion of anyone else who might have had something relevant to say.

I was kinda wondering if the crazy amount of signature tags and the obtrusive smiley emoticons might be appealing to someone looking for a regular forum home but think we have the same capability with our boards so that’s not it.

Angie’s boards also have no swear filters and she explicitly says her site is not for the kiddies. But her forums see only a fraction of our activity levels or EOT’s activity levels.

I woulld say though that EOT did well to get a lot of fan fiction up there and a lot of user posted fan art.

[MannysCollectibles]

Well i looked at their stats and came up with the following.

People come here ,for for the latest news on the franchise, and discussion here is more Thundercats based.

Over at EOT there is actually not much discussion going on about Thundercats but there is more discussion on other stuff such as forum board games, etc.

They do not get any sort of first news on anything, so in essence we have the quality as far as posts and a good amount of posting but they somehow manage to excel in the other areas not including Thundercats.

I guess the best way to put it is that we are more business based as opposed to them which are mostly casual based. Its the best description i can come up with

[Mark_Grizzlor]

I’d have to agree with that Manny, I think you nailed it. Their activity levels come from a small handful of posters who are mostly dealing with off topic chats. I think what happened during the “great lull” between ThunderCats in the 1980s until the re-emergence of the property in the comics of the 2000s was that a small band of die hard fans found a community home in EOT.

Our site I think represents a fan site for the casual fan all the way through to passionate collectors and hard core fans. We run the spectrum and we’re on top of real news.

I don’t think we want to run the best games in our forums and frankly after my experience dealing with some of the hardest core fans who have been a real pain in the neck while I’ve been running the fandom awards… people like that can stay over at EOT as far as I’m concerned.

I do think we can learn one thing from EOT though and that is the additional forum features they use seem to drive up participation. I think the shoutbox is a great example of something we could incorporate to stimulate more casual discussion and a greater sense of community.

I think we should consider these kinds of improvements during the 3.0 relaunch.

[system]

Chris here…

Hey MannyF and everyone, I was just wondering how things were moving along with the proposed ThunderCats Lair 3.0 website relaunch?

I’m very excited and eager to see this moving forwards, and stand ready to assist in any way I can!

Bear in mind I am now at an intermediate level for HTML / CSS and am also trying to wrap my head around things like PHP (which is what a large part of customising a WordPress site involves), and from a graphics perspective I’m also an intermediate level Photoshop user with a full working copy of Photoshop CS4 Extended, so if there’s anything you think I can help with, don’t be afraid to fire it at me!

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

I’m going to clear my PM box (as it is at 99% at the moment) and will start sending out messages to everyone regarding the expectations of the sections.

As for something worth showing, it is still a WIP. If you remember the screens I showed two years ago when I first brought up the redesign, that is pretty much the design I am working with, with some minor changes here and there. I don’t have specific layouts for any sections as I don’t really want to work on anything until I have spoken to those in charge of those sections. The screens I showed of the episode guide/cartoon section were just test layouts.

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The only other thing I was wondering about is whether or not we still have unedited versions of all the images on the site? Images such as comic covers, figures, etc? It would be great if we could start organizing all of those (unmarked) images/graphics and put them in one folder in the team directory so we all have access to them without having to search through hundreds of files.

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I will probably start with Mark’s Animation Art section, then go to the Merchandise first. I think the Animation Art is a little less complicated, but not as simplistic as the Merchandise section, which would serve as a foundation for the rest of the Cartoon area when we eventually start working on it.

The toys will probably be the most complicated section to deal with, if only because there are a TON of pages to redo!! I would also like to refrain from using Flash as much as possible so that iPhone and iPad users can view the site as well without any limitations.

Of course, Neil, MannyR, and I will talk about that when the time comes.

I know I missed the meeting, which I will address in a few minutes via that thread.

[system]

Chris here…

Thanks for getting back to us about this, Manny.

@Manny

The only other thing I was wondering about is whether or not we still have unedited versions of all the images on the site? Images such as comic covers, figures, etc? It would be great if we could start organizing all of those (unmarked) images/graphics and put them in one folder in the team directory so we all have access to them without having to search through hundreds of files.

Yep, all of the images I’ve uploaded I have a copy of them minus the watermark - I’ll try and get to work putting them into some semblance of order and uploaded into the team folder!

@Manny

I will probably start with Mark’s Animation Art section, then go to the Merchandise first. I think the Animation Art is a little less complicated, but not as simplistic as the Merchandise section, which would serve as a foundation for the rest of the Cartoon area when we eventually start working on it.

The toys will probably be the most complicated section to deal with, if only because there are a TON of pages to redo!! I would also like to refrain from using Flash as much as possible so that iPhone and iPad users can view the site as well without any limitations.

Of course, Neil, MannyR, and I will talk about that when the time comes.

This all sounds good, and I agree with you completely about the Flash - it is possible to recreate the “Toy Viewer” effect using HTML because Kyle did it for Mark’s Animation Art Section, it would be good to try and avoid the use of it wherever possible!

I realise that this is a very difficult question to answer because it depends on so many different factors, but - do you have an idea of when this is likely to be completed (very roughly - e.g., late summer, sometime in October or November, something like that?), are you still shooting for December of this year (this site’s 5th anniversary) as the deadline?

Again, thanks for all your hard work on this, Manny, and really looking forward to seeing the amazing work you come up with!

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

@He-Fan

I realise that this is a very difficult question to answer because it depends on so many different factors, but - do you have an idea of when this is likely to be completed (very roughly - e.g., late summer, sometime in October or November, something like that?), are you still shooting for December of this year (this site’s 5th anniversary) as the deadline?

Yeah, I really don’t want to put a date on this because everytime I do something like that, I never seem to accomplish it. I’m going to just say by the 5th anniversary and if we get it done sooner, that’ll just be icing on the cake.

I think if what was said in the other thread regarding WB’s comments are to be trusted upon (great job on Mark’s part btw for getting in touch with that guy), then I think it will only motivate us to work harder…and faster.

[QUOTE]
Again, thanks for all your hard work on this, Manny, and really looking forward to seeing the amazing work you come up with!

Thanks to you and to everyone else for being patient. I think I will be asking a lot of help from everyone on this because it is a huge undertaking, but I know we can do it. We did it 5 years ago!

[system]

Chris here…

@Manny

Yeah, I really don’t want to put a date on this because everytime I do something like that, I never seem to accomplish it. I’m going to just say by the 5th anniversary and if we get it done sooner, that’ll just be icing on the cake.

LOL, yeah, I’m pretty much the same as far as dates - I agree with you, I think if we just forge ahead as best as we can, we’ll get there when we get there, by December if not sooner!

@Manny

I think if what was said in the other thread regarding WB’s comments are to be trusted upon (great job on Mark’s part btw for getting in touch with that guy), then I think it will only motivate us to work harder…and faster.

Yep, definitely - hopefully all the exciting stuff we’ve wondered about all these years we’ve been doing this site will finally come to fruition on WB’s part!

@Manny

Thanks to you and to everyone else for being patient. I think I will be asking a lot of help from everyone on this because it is a huge undertaking, but I know we can do it. We did it 5 years ago!

I stand ready to assist in any way I can!

My hat goes off to you, Manny, for having the vision and good judgement that I didn’t have in realising that this site would need updating for the modern Internet - when I look at the developments with HTML and CSS in recent months, the world wide web has changed a hell of a lot since we started out back in 2005!

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Question: I want to add a section that focuses on the debunked movie. i still have information on the movie that hasn’t been published yet, so I’d like to put it on the site as a special feature. Should I make a movie category on the nav bar, or make a sub-section under another area? And if I make a sub-section, where would I put it under? Perhaps I should make a “Misc.” category on the nav bar?

And just a quick update, I found some free time to get some of the sections into a generic template. Working on the Animation Art stuff as a testing ground for the rest of the site. I hope to have something to show soon, even before the meeting.

[system]

Chris here…

@Manny

Question: I want to add a section that focuses on the debunked movie. i still have information on the movie that hasn’t been published yet, so I’d like to put it on the site as a special feature. Should I make a movie category on the nav bar, or make a sub-section under another area? And if I make a sub-section, where would I put it under? Perhaps I should make a “Misc.” category on the nav bar?

For myself, I’d make a “Movie” section - if the concept of a ThunderCats movie gets revived, you could use that section for that stuff as well!

@Manny

And just a quick update, I found some free time to get some of the sections into a generic template. Working on the Animation Art stuff as a testing ground for the rest of the site. I hope to have something to show soon, even before the meeting.

Awesome news, Manny - looking forward to seeing it!

Take care…

[Mark_Grizzlor]

Cool, I’ll make Movies a dedicated section

Is there any way we can get a new logo header for the site? Should I talk to Kyle?

[system]

Chris here…

@Manny

Is there any way we can get a new logo header for the site? Should I talk to Kyle?

Hey Manny, I have a vague recollection of Kyle saying he’d be really up for doing that - I know from my occasional chats with him that he’s quite busy, but imagine if he had the time he’d do it - the man is a living legend! Best thing in my experience would be to fire him an e-mail or a message through Facebook!

So excited to see this moving forward - sounds from your Facebook updates that you’ve been doing a lot of work on this, Manny, nice one! When you say you’re coding, are you coding in PHP? I’m in the process of teaching myself Javascript scripting and it’s pretty brutal stuff, LOL!

Take care…