"Official" episode numbers? :)

Cartoons ThunderCats (1985)
1

Hi all,

Just a quick query - over the years I’ve noted that there are two ways to place the ThunderCats series in order, by “story order” and “airdate order”, the latter of which being the version used on the WB DVDs, and thus explaining why the five parts of the Anointment Trials episodes are all spread so far apart! :roll:

I was wondering, does anybody here own any official scripts (or copies of same) from any ThunderCats episodes, and if so, do any of those scripts have episode numbers on them? What I’m basically trying to ascertain out of curiosity is which order Rankin-Bass themselves regarded as the “official” order. This has really started nagging at me, so I would love to either get or at least figure out a near-definitive answer! :slight_smile: If anybody here is able to help, please can you LMK? Many thanks! :slight_smile:

Take care, and thanks for listening! :slight_smile:

2

Perhaps I can help. I have a production list on my site, but since that’s down, I’ll have to copy/paste out of the site files stored on my comp. Yay for server downtime : /

Before I do, let me explain a bit. The first season here is correct. I got the info from a guy who has copies of almost all of the scripts (I bought several and can verify those, too). Do note, the Anointment Trials weren’t produced back-to-back either. Interesting.
The second season (or, second, third and fourth to some) are iffier as some guessing had to be done. But from the two actual studio scripts I have from this era and of the several others that I’ve seen thanks to friends scanning them in, so far, their numbers match the one you see on your average ep lists.
It’s always that darn season one nobody can agree on from list to list.

And yes, for the record, my two late series real scripts do have 1988 dates on them. Let the “how many seasons are there” debates rage on :punch:

Anyway, the production list is as follows:

SEASON ONE

  1. Exodus
  2. The Unholy Alliance
  3. Berbils
  4. The Slaves of Castle Plundarr
  5. Trouble With Time
  6. Pumm-Ra
  7. The Terror of Hammerhand
  8. The Tower of Traps
  9. The Garden of Delights
  10. Mandora: Evil Chaser
  11. The Ghost Warrior
  12. The Doomgaze
  13. Lord of the Snows
  14. The Spaceship Beneath the Sands
  15. The Time Capsule
  16. The Fireballs of Plun-Darr
  17. All That Glitters
  18. Spitting Image
  19. Lion-O’s Anointment Trial Part One: Trial of Strength
  20. Mongor
  21. Return to Thundera
  22. Snarf Takes Up the Challenge
  23. Mandora and the Pirates
  24. The Crystal Queen
  25. Lion-O’s Anointment Trial Part Two: Trial of Speed
  26. Safari Joe
  27. Return of the Driller
  28. Turmagar the Tuska
  29. Sixth Sense
  30. Dr. Dometone
  31. The Astral Prison
  32. Queen of 8 Legs
  33. Dimension Doom
  34. Lion-O’s Anointment Trial Part Three: Trial of Cunning
  35. The Rock Giant
  36. The Thunder-cutter
  37. Mechanical Plague
  38. The Demolisher
  39. The Feliner Part 1
  40. The Wolfrat
  41. Excalibur
  42. Lion-O’s Anointment Trial Part Four: Trial of Mind Power
  43. The Secret of the Ice King
  44. Sword in a Hole
  45. The Feliner Part 2
  46. Good And Ugly
  47. Divide and Conquer
  48. The Micrits
  49. Lion-O’s Anointment Trial Part Five: Trial of Evil
  50. The Super Power Potion
  51. The Evil Harp of Charr-Nin
  52. Tight Squeeze
  53. Monkian’s Bargain
  54. Out of Sight
  55. Jackalman’s Rebellion
  56. The Mountain
  57. Eye of the Beholder
  58. The Mumm-Ra Berbil
  59. Trouble With Thunderkittens
  60. Mumm-Rana
  61. Trapped
  62. The Transfer
  63. The Shifter
  64. Dream Master
  65. Fond Memories

SEASON TWO

  1. ThunderCats HO! Part I
  2. ThunderCats HO! Part II
  3. ThunderCats HO! Part III
  4. ThunderCats HO! Part IV
  5. ThunderCats HO! Part V
  6. Mumm-Ra Lives! Part I
  7. Mumm-Ra Lives! Part II
  8. Mumm-Ra Lives! Part III
  9. Mumm-Ra Lives! Part IV
  10. Mumm-Ra Lives! Part V
  11. Catfight
  12. Psych Out
  13. Mask of Gorgon
  14. Mad Bubbler
  15. Together We Stand
  16. Ravage Island
  17. Time Switch
  18. Sound Stones
  19. Day of the Eclipse
  20. Side Swipe
  21. Mumm-Rana’s Belt
  22. Hachiman’s Honor
  23. Runaways
  24. Hair of the Dog
  25. Vultureman’s Revenge
  26. Thundercubs Part I
  27. Thundercubs Part II
  28. Thundercubs Part III
  29. Thundercubs Part IV
  30. Thundercubs Part V
  31. The Totem of Dera
  32. The Chain of Loyalty
  33. Crystal Canyon
  34. Telepathy Beam
  35. Exile Isle
  36. Key of Thundera
  37. Return of Thundercubs
  38. The Formula
  39. Locket of Lies
  40. Bracelet of Power
  41. Wild Workout
  42. Thunderscope
  43. The Jade Dragon
  44. The Circus Train
  45. The Last Day
  46. Return to Thundera Part I
  47. Return to Thundera Part II
  48. Return to Thundera Part III
  49. Return to Thundera Part IV
  50. Return to Thundera Part V
  51. Leah
  52. Frogman
  53. The Heritage
  54. Screw Loose
  55. Malcar
  56. Helpless Laughter
  57. Cracker’s Revenge
  58. The Mossland Monster
  59. Ma-Mutt’s Confusion
  60. The Shadowmaster
  61. Swan Song
  62. The Touch of Amortus
  63. The Zaxx Factor
  64. Well of Doubt
  65. Book of Omens
3

Chris here…

Purrsia, once again your information, insight and help is absolutely incredible - thank you! That is an excellent and highly informative list, and provides a lot of insight! :slight_smile:

One further question if that’s OK - on the scripts that you’ve seen, are the episodes numbered by a production number, by a date (and if so, does that date refer to when the script was approved, the projected airdate, or some other date?), or by some other method? :slight_smile: I know with the series He-Man and the Masters of the Universe (and the spin-off, She-Ra Princess of Power), each script that was approved was then assigned a production number, and even though it’s reasonably certain that the episodes were not produced in the order the scripts were numbered, that is still used as the “official” method for placing episodes of that series in order. If you were able to provide some insight as to how this was done for ThunderCats, I’d be fascinated to read it! Many thanks as always for all of your great help!! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

4

No problem.

Since my site it back up (knock on wood) you can see what I have/what has been donated at this url:
http://www.purrsiathunder.org/epscripts.php

Basically, the season one stuff must have been un-finalized versions of scripts for there are certain pages where the dialogue is different than the aired finished product. The ending of Sixth Sense in particular is interesting - in the draft I have posted, that famous Lion-O/Cheetara pairing hint is left out only to be added, obviously, at some later point. So what does that mean about the date on the cover? I’ll have to ask around…and try to get ahold of production crew that might actually remember what they mean. I talk mostly to writers and voice actors, and a lot of times, they understandably aren’t sure about that end of things or just have a fuzzy memory about them after a few decades. I’ll see what I can do.

The season two actual scripts I have (not copies) are labled “studio”, and apprently, were used in the studio and are more final, if you will. Those have less discrepencies, and others I’ve seen do have last-minute changes and notes scribbled in them. I’ll have to see if my first season script guy has a second season script (he does have a few) that’ll match one of those studio ones out there and see if the dates differ. That could tell us a lot.

There are other episode listings on the site, where one can compare and contrast how the lists differ. On my board, I had made a post that compared part of season one between the various lists:
http://www.purrsiathunder.org/tebforum/index.php?topic=181.msg2259#msg2259
One is the old, “traditional” listing, the “air date” list WB followed on the dvd, and the production or script # list. I too had thought WB would pick production over the air date list, following the MOTU mold.

I will say the air date list gleaned off the pazsaz site is screwy, given the dates we can clearly see on the late series scripts. No way they could have aired beforehand (in 86, which most season two eps have on the air date list there - nevermind the scripts I have say 88).

The “modern” list was what was on most web sites when I came on the scene in 2001, and everyone was just copying everyone else’s ep order. Where it originated from I’ve no idea, although I did notice CN tended to air reruns in that pattern. Perhaps it’s just an idealized ordering, in a way that made more “sense” to fans (i.e. keeping the trials together and so on). I would think maybe the list originated at the Ultimate site…because it is the most ripped-off site by others of all time :wink: You see that site’s info reposted everywhere, for better or worse, as the case may be.

If you follow the Cover links on the script page of my site, you’ll see the ep #'s and dates listed on the scripts available. Finances/donors willing, I may have more in the future to offer.

As was said, the season one order has been confirmed by the fellow selling copies, and I have confidence that season two, as with most lists of eps, follows the proper order too. It’s rarely in any other order no matter what list you look at, and is the least disputed as far as sequence - how to split it up (as to whether it should be divided into three more seasons or kept together as “season two”) is another matter. WB, obviously, considers it all a whole season.

To get to your questions, I was under the impression that these were production numbers, but I can always ask around and double check. I’m also pretty sure people like Peter Lawrence and other writers have confirmed in the past that the eps were often created in an order contrary to how they aired and so on. Much like, it sounds, MOTU was.

Personal opinion here, I do prefer the Anointment Trials together as the story does imply those took place one after another (consecutive days in the cartoon’s universe) so it makes more sense to see them together. But then, it doesn’t bother me to see them split up on lists and on the DVD either. The sun still rises and sets either way :wink:

Phew, shutting up now. If I learn anything more that is helpful, I’ll let you know.

5

Chris here…

Purrsia, that info is…wow, just amazing! I apologise for only just responding, I wanted to read it in proper detail before replying - that is fascinating stuff! :slight_smile: Yes please, if you do glean any more info on this subject, I would be really interested to hear about it - thank you so much! :slight_smile:

I’m checking out all the script scans you have on your website, that’s excellent material - I hope that you can get your hands on more! :smiley:

Thanks again for all your help as ever, and for your excellent information! :slight_smile:

EDIT: Just wanted to say too, don’t ever worry about needing to “shut up” like you stated at the end of your post - trust me, I’m fascinated to read any info that you’re able to pass on, the more the merrier! :smiley:

Take care… :slight_smile:

6

Has anyone considered that the order the scripts were written doesn’t necessarily point to a chronology either way? They may be been produced out Of order, but they had their order in mind.

Either way. The annointment trials will never be watched out of order by me.