…tallented people like Leonard Starr, William Overguard, Stephen Perry,
Bob Haney and the rest of the team who wrote the Thundercats story have also done a great and notable writing career in the comic industry for major publishers, produced scripts for acclaimed TV shows and wrote many novels as well as books. Their overall work speak volumes about their contribution and carefull creation of the Thundercats chronicle. With all due respect, we can’t erase their bright ideas and alter completely without presenting fitting answers, the original scenario. Thundercats never were a swash buckling cartoon show focusing simply on action, redundant fights or lame, implausible plot, it was something much more and that is why it is stll alive after 25 years. The whole story is so important in preserving the coherence of the show. We can’t just forget it or ignore it keeping the same only the names and a couple of other elements.
Nobody says to be narrow minded in handling the New series, we all want to see new mysteries unraveled. But it doesn’t have to erase the old story and that is what we are trying to do, find some reasonable explanations to link the past with the future…
You are partly right. However, according to the WB press release:
You can not make up stuff for the new series that will contradict the old series AND still remain true to the storylines and mythology of the original. Now anything that is in the new can be brand new and never covered in the original, but it can’t contradict stuff that was covered in the original, unless you want to say WBA was lying in the press release.
Therefore, any new things in this new series must be able to be explained in some way that will not contradict the original, hence the theories about how Lion-O and Tygra could be brothers and Lion-O still be the hereditary Lord of the ThunderCats. So, from the original, we do know Tygra was appointed to be the head of the ThunderCat Council (from Pumm-Ra), and Lion-O said Tygra would be the next Lord of the ThunderCats if he (Lion-O) did not return from the volcano (from All that Glitters). So whether by coincidence or planning, Tygra did appear to be slightly more important than the other ThunderCats.
The other question is if this series will take place before, after or retell the original series. Since it is Lion-O’s ascention to the throne, it can’t happen after the original since he was annointed in the first season of the original. And for Claudus to be included as much as it is rumored, then this almost has to take place before the original series.
So this series will be to the original what the prequel trilogy is to the original Star Wars trilogy. And if you think in those terms, was there any question at any point of the prequels that young Anakin would become a jedi and then turn to the dark side? NO! Why? Because it would contradict the original trilogy.
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that this series will be a “re-telling”? Are you in employed by Warner Brothers to work in some way on this project? From the official Warner Brothers press release, I find nothing that actually says this new series is going to retell the original series.
Furthermore, please enlighten me on how you can remain true to the original storylines and mythology while completely ignoring it. I do believe that is the definition of an oxymoron (sp?). What’s next, the revelation that the new series places the Mutants as natives of Third Earth, while staying true to the storyline that Thundera explodes due to the Sword of Plun-Darr being thrown in a volcano after Jaga defeated Ratilla?
N
I know what "new telling means, it means I’m not going to watch the show
You’re mostly correct, but only because the original He-Man series had such little continuity in it. That’s one reason I couldn’t get into that show is because most every episode had little to do with a greater overall story arch. Nothing seemed to progress the series along, it was almost like each episode existed on its own and not part of a greater whole story. MYP changed that as the 2002 series was very continuity driven. BUT, the characters themselves changed very little. They did give Skeletor a new back story by giving him a previous persona. The core characters, stayed relatively the same though in terms of their relationships to one another based on the few episodes I’ve watched
Thundercats, while there are some flaws pointed out on this board w/ continuity, was leaps and bounds ahead of MOTU in that department. I do think you have a point that it isn’t going to be a prequel or an exact retelling of the original series, however I believe it will not completely disregard the original series at all.
One reason we can be almost certain of that is that Larry Kenny wouldn’t have agreed to it (as he said himself) unless it was something he felt comfortable with, and I doubt he would have felt comfortable with a series that took absolutely nothing from the original. You’re making it out that the only thing it will use from the original is that Lion-O will be in the show and that he will be Lord of the Thundercats, which is where I believe you’re absolutely wrong. There will be PLENTY of correlation to the old series. Almost all of the same characters are going to be there (Thundercats, Mutants, Mumm-Ra, etc) at some point in time. Some might be less prominently featured than in the original series, others might be more so…but they will all be there. WB isn’t stupid enough to do something like leave Mumm-Ra off the show because they know that WILL alienate older fans and, while this show is designed to capture the new younger audience…they know they have to capture the older fans as well. Neither New Adventures or the MYP series really captured the old faithful as a whole back (both of those shows are widely panned on He-Man.org forums) and I attribute that as a big reason why neither show and their respective toylines lasted longer than they did.
Bottom line Lio, you’ve got a point that this show won’t be borrowing too heavily from the old series, and a lot of new storylines are going to be created here, but you’re way off base if you think they’re going to do something as drastic as make Tygra younger than Lion-O, or give Panthro pink skin (I know you didn’t say that, I’m just throwing that out there as another example), or have Cheetara fighting with an axe instead of her staff. Those character nuances absolutely must be in the show to retain older fan loyalty, and WB almost certainly realizes this.
Tell me the meaning of re-telling and remaking the original show after 25 years? Does this mean there aren’t any good and genuine theories to delve into while staying faithful to the story so far? I can come up with 12 different starting points for a New show and that is because Thundercats’ original scenario was so masterfully written and has opened the way for numerous new plots to come to the surface. “Remaining true to the original” and the “basic story outline” goes against to the notion of Lion-o and Tygra being brothers.
At least if the production wants to say the story once again from a different perspective, why did they choose to change only one very pivotal issue like Lion-o being brother to Tygra but keep the same all the rest,for instance Lion-o’s ascension to the throne and the destrucion of his home planet? What does this serve? The right word isn’t remake but expand the scenario. I wouldn’t mind if we learned that Snarfer was son to Snarf instead of his younger nephew, or if Ratar-o in the New series is the leader of the Mutants from the begining, or the Treasure and Eye of Thundera were simply called Stones of Power, or even if Lynx-o and Pumyra had a father and daughter relation, these are minor details which don’t have an important consequence to the main plot, but Tygra being brother to Lion-o throws the story off the track and affects every part of it. Puts forward for consideration so many different points and raises crucial questions for the correlation and consistency to the story.Certainly, it isn’t a single little detail but a whole new modification which influences to a great extent every aspect of the show.
As aero correctly mentioned the New Series has the liberty to usher in brand new things never covered in the original so as to further enlighten the story and we all wish to be introduecd to fresh ideas as well as unexplored mysteries but these directions shouldn’t be done to the detriment of the 80’s cartoon.
I am not stuck to the past neither being narrow minded, it’s just that we can’t ignore or erase out of memory some things which generated the history of Thundercats. When we learned about Claudu’s prescence it was pretty much obvious that the protagonist at the firsts few episodes wouldn’t be Lion-o and the story would take us back in Old Thundera. I don’t believe any Thundercats fan had a problem with this direction and we supported the idea since we will have the chance to get acquainted with an old and interesting civilization that we all craved to discover more.
Finally, to make myself clear i am not opposed to Lion-o and Tygra being brothers, actually i like it. But, i won’t accept it if this is taken for granted in the New series and comes out of a clear blue sky without a reasonable explanation justifying why the two characters didn’t know about their family connection.
The FILMation Masters of the Universe animated series was produced specifically for syndication; the plot of each episode is self-contained so that the episodes can be broadcast in any order.
How do you figure? The Mike Young Productions Masters of the Universe animated series made He-Man the nephew of Skeletor, and Fisto the brother of Man-At-Arms, and it did not fundamentally alter the property.
To answer your question i’d say that i’ve never been a MOTU admirer and i haven’t watched all the episodes so i don’t know if there is any significance in the continuity of the show or the producers laid emphasis to a greater overall story arch as Grune_ mentioned previously.However, with all due respect to the fans i don’t believe Thundercats should be measured against MOTU. Thundercats are one step ahead in artwork,animation, characters,longevity,depth of story and generally in quality.
And maybe in the MOTU saga an adjustment like He-Man the nephew of Skeletor would be lightly taken but in the Thundecats universe a change of this magnitude is bound to raise significant questions.
It doesn’t go as simple as that: Ok,Tygra is the older brother and this doesn’t affect at all the members of the team, and Lion-o reacts indifferently to this revelation.
Two candidates for ascencion to the throne can tip the balance of power on almost any direction.
Tygra is my second best character in the show but it is a true he never had a protagonist’s role,more often than not he was behind Panthro. Now he equals Lion-o in importance…Think about it
I was not as into He-Man as I was ThunderCats as a child, HOWEVER, I distinctly remember one of the mini-comics that came with the He-Man figures and vehicles had King Randor going to the Eternia Towers (probably the mini-comic from the Eternia Playset) in hopes of finding answers to what happened to his brother, Keldor. There was something about an eclipse or something that he hoped to be able to learn more about what happened years before. I remember that because I made the connection as a kid that add an “S” and replace the “d” with “et” and suddenly Keldor turns into Skeletor.
But heck, I’ll play along with the idea of ThunderCats '11 being to T-Cats '85 as He-Man '02 was to He-Man '83 for a little bit…
Answer each of the following questions twice, #1 for the '02 series, and #2 for the '83 series, I’ll go ahead and answer the first one:
#1. Who was the secret identity of He-Man?
1.1: Prince Adam
1.2: Prince Adam
#2. Who knew the secret identity of He-Man?
2.1:
2.2:
#3. What are the names of Prince Adam’s parents?
3.1:
3.2:
#4. Who was the Captian of the Royal Guard?
4.1:
4.2:
#5. What allowed He-Man to transform into He-Man?
5.1:
5.2:
#6. What did he have to say to transform?
6.1:
6.2:
#7. Who lived at Castle Greyskull?
7.1:
7.2:
#8. Who is the main/lead of the bad guys in the first episodes?
8.1:
8.2:
#9. Where do the bad guys call home?
9.1:
9.2:
#10. Who is Teela’s Mother?
10.1:
10.2:
#11. Who is Prince Adam’s brother?
11.1:
11.2:
When done answering, highlight the following text to read it: Sorry, number 11 does not have a typo, it was a trick question to make the point that there were no brothers in either series (that I know of anyway). So why would ThunderCats '11 make a change that drastic unless it could be explained in some way to make it not contradict ThunderCats '85?
Now can we stop talking about how ThunderCats '11 will be a remake of ThunderCats '85 while completely rewriting the background story?
I agree aero.I DON’T believe the 2011 series will be demoted to a remake or retelling.And by remake or retelling i mean keeping the same only the names and borrowing a few other standart facts like the sword of omens, mutants,Mumm-ra etc. and changing almost everything in the story as we know it so far.Even the recent issue of Tygra being brother to Lion-o which has caused such a controversy will somehow be reasonably explained without cotradicting the original scenario.
From the announcements it is becoming more and more clearer that new elements will be included and the old story will be the basis for further analyzing and unfurling the new scenario. It should be taken for granted that the first episodes will take us back in Old Thundera where Claudus and most likely the noble Thunderians(Tygra,Cheetara,Panthro) will be in the spotlight.
The question is after the references to Old Thundera at which point the show will focus on and continue?
One possible answer is directly in New Thundera after a short narration explaining to the younger audiences the past events. Lion-o was considered the rightful Lord of the Thundercats,even for the refuges coming back home to their reformed planet but maybe he will have to prove once again his ascencion to the throne this time in front of his entire people and not just merely the 5 Thundercats.
Personally, i would like to see the story continuing from some point in Third Earth, right after the end of season 1 before the introduction of Bengali,Pumyra and Lynx-o. Then, new adventures and fights against the mutants could be added, more importantly the story will focus on the fully-fledged Thundercats team. And later, after a couple of episodes and a narration describing how they managed to get back to New thundera the show can take to totally uncharted teritories.
ThunderCats should not be compared to Masters of the Universe. The former is getting its first new media in 25 years, and the latter has had a theatrically released animated feature, a theatrically released live action film, two spin-off syndicated animated series, a sequel animated series, a prequel animated series, and has another live action film in development. There is no comparison.
He-Man is a prince, his father is a king. If Skeletor is his uncle, then he is also royalty, and has a legitimate claim to the throne. That is not a “light adjustment,” and is certainly more significant than Lion-O and Tygra being brothers, and it does not fundamentally alter the property.
1.[list=A][li]Prince Adam (18 years old).[/li][li]Prince Adam (16 years old).[/list][/li]2.[list=A][li]The Sorceress, Man-At-Arms, Orko, Cringer (Battle Cat), and Zodak.[/li][li]The Sorceress, Man-At-Arms, Orko, Cringer (Battle Cat), Adora (She-Ra), Spirit (Swift Wind), Light Hope, Madam Razz & Broom, Kowl, and Loo-Kee.[/list][/li]3.[list=A][li]King (formerly Captain) Randor and Queen Marlena.[/li][li]King (formerly Prince) Randor and Queen (formerly Lieutenant) Marlena Glenn.[/list][/li]4.[list=A][li]Man-At-Arms followed by Teela.[/li][li]Teela.[/list][/li]5.[list=A][li]The Sword of Grayskull.[/li][li]The Sword of Power.[/list][/li]6.[list=A][li]By the power of Grayskull, I have the power![/li][li]By the Power of Grayskull, I have the Power![/list][/li]7.[list=A][li]The Sorceress.[/li][li]The Sorceress.[/list][/li]8.[list=A][li]Keldor.[/li][li]Skeletor.[/list][/li]9.[list=A][li]Snake Mountain.[/li][li]Snake Mountain.[/list][/li]10.[list=A][li]The Sorceress.[/li][li]The Sorceress.[/list][/li]11.[list=A][li]N/A.[/li][li]N/A.[/list][/li]
Since He-Man did not have a brother in either series, nothing is changed. Had one series included or omitted a brother, that may or may not be a change, let alone a significant one depending on the context, so this is really a poor argument.
Controversial to whom?
Claudus appeared in the original series through various plot devices, so his inclusion in the new series is not an indication that the first episodes will be set on Old Thundera.
Despite your desire for it to be otherwise, that is completely implausible.
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]My friend let me tell you what I believe answering your points in order; [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri]1)[/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]You are correct, the facts you mentioned are all true and one more reason why Thundercats shouldn’t be compared or taken as a basis to MOTU. My personal opinion and I’ve expressed it before in this forum is that the MOTU cartoon was primarily made by Mattel with a main purpose to accompany and market a toy line, hence the 6 different lines of action figures created. Besides, Mattel is mainly a toy company and hasn’t been seriously involved in cartoon making whereas Thundercats had very talented studios producing them. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri]2)[/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Depending on how deep the MOTU storyboard goes and the way the writers of the show handle each character’s development. Honestly, I don’t know how He-man being nephew to Skeletor affected the series altogether, logically it should. However, Skeletor is the bad guy and must have been renounced from the beginning by the royal family to any legitimate claim to the throne. On the other hand, if Tygra is the first born son to Claudus, he has the right and responsibility to be the next Lord of the Thundercats. This leaves Prince Lion-o, second in the line of succession. We shouldn’t forget that Lion-o’s ascension to [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]Throne was taken for granted since the exodus episode when Jaga still inside the ship directed the young Lord of his duties and upcoming obligations to uphold the Code of Thundera and bring to life their destroyed kingdom once again in a foreign planet this time. The whole mythology of Thundercats is based on this theme and we see it step by step getting fulfilled with Lion-o’s maturity process. This is why we can’t pass by the latest information about Tygra. This revelation will set the wheels in motion for major changes. At least this comes as a reasonable consequence. Please explain to me a possible scenario where this can be taken lightly and have no impact on the series? [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri]3)[/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]If you go through the last 4 pages of this thread you will read many different and interesting opinions concerning the latest announcements. We are all trying to make rational speculations of how the news will fit in the world of Thundercats. Sometimes we agree and sometimes not, some thoughts are more acceptable and others not so much. This is the freedom of speech, a public conversation holding opposing views is a beneficial dialogue, everyone’s suggestion is much respected, I didn’t mean the word controversy in a bad way. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri]4)[/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Claudus didn’t appear in various moments of the whole plot in the original Cartoon, he appeared only in 2 episodes Return to Thundera and the Shadowmaster. We all wished to see him more often but until the episode 125 (Shadowmaster) he was considered dead. I came to this conclusion because Larry Keney will voice Claudus and unless he emerges as a ghost mentor like Jaga then necessarily the story will have to take us in Old Thundera, can you predict anything else?[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri]5)[/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Maybe you are right, but what I am trying to do is present accurate ideas which stand to reason taking into account the 80’s series. If we take us a fact that the old series will be loosely connected to the New then we may come up with whatever scenarios we like and state them freely without any consideration. In my opinion the Thundecats legacy is too strong to simply erase the past in the name of the ’11 series.[/FONT][/SIZE]
I concur that we really shouldn’t be comparing ThunderCats to He-Man. There’s the spin-offs of She-Ra and New Adventures (set in future), live action movie, etc. And even the figure lines are completely different. But a previous theory was that the new T-Cat series would be like the '02 He-Man series.
Let’s face it, until the new series comes out, or there is an official announcement, everything is pure speculation and theory. Will the new series be loosely based on the general concept of the original? Will it be a straight-up retelling of all of the stories from the original? Will it be more of a continuation of the original (either taking place before or after the original)?
Everyone has a theory on what they think it will be. I know what my theory is, but I am not certain enough about it to make any kind of monetary bet about it. Does anyone feel so certain about their theory that they would be ready to say: “I bet you $1,000. ThunderDollars that it is going to be _____________________.”?
And just an FYI, the whole Keldor/Skeletor thing was bugging me last night, so I searched online and found the mini-comic I was thinking about, so yes, Keldor and Skeletor were the one and same in the original He-Man series as well as the '02 series.
http://www.he-man.org/publishing/item.php?id=1065
http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/collect_toy/034.jpg
Merged Post:
Another thought came to mind recently about Tygra. There are apparently two ways to become a noble in the original. We know by birth, thanks to Lion-O’s situation. But Ben-Gali, Pumyra, and Lynx-O revealed a new way too. Lion-O states they handled themselves like ThunderCats and annoints them as such. It was not a shock to the other ThunderCats, so it must not have been that unusual.
So that provides a new possibility, Tygra could have been a random orphan who was in the right place at the right time to save a ThunderCat from something. Something along the lines of when Claudus was blinded, Tygra could have been nearby and was able to use his mind tricks to save Claudus’ life. And in the grand scheme of things, it would make the original make more sense, for how would Lion-O know that was an option unless it was something that he knew about from before Thundera exploded? Like maybe how a common orphan became his adopted big-brother…
No one can be 100% certain of the final scenario. This is for sure. Owing to our big appreciation and love for a unique cartoon we are expressing overtly our enthusiasm and excitement through these theories and speculations.
I think Bengali, Pumyra and Lynx-o were promoted from mere Thunderians to Thundercats by Lion-o, but not to nobles. i don’t remember in the Second Season the New Thundercats ever being called as “nobles” by the rest. I believe this title was addressed to the main 6 Thundercats.
Your new theory reminds me of WS’s Thundercats comic: Origins,Chapter two:The Race, where Cheetara senses the young Lion-o was in danger and sprints faster than any other contestant saving him from falling down the high cliff. Jaga then, regards her as worthy of becoming a Thundercat. Your suggestion of an adopted big brother solves the issue of Tygra’s claim to the throne. Because the adopted son, even though older in age, won’t share the same rights as the first son of Claudus.
Not a widely shared sentiment I know, but I hope the writers demote them (well at least Bengali and Pumyra) to only appearing in a story arc to introduce them, and then a handful of episodes afterwards and returning the focus to the main Thundercats. Lynx-O, while I never liked him in the show because he always seemed too ‘gifted’ (I always thought he was the lone Thundercat not affected by something and thus the one having to rescue the others a little too often), he at least brings a unique Thundercats trait to the show.
Speaking of which, assuming all of the Thundercats keep their unique traits (Cheetara’s ligth speed and/or 6th sense & Tygra’s disappearance) I’d love for the writers to find a creative way to have Panthro appear more unique. He’s I guess supposed to be the strongest and best hand to hand fighter of the Thundercats (until Lion-O bests him in the trials), but he was never given a snazzy display of this. I guess the best way to phrase this is, there are several episodes in the show where it was useful and key to the Cats success in rescuing someone or winning the battle against the evil foe(s) of the episode for Tygra to be able to dissapear and do something. Same thing with Cheetara’s light speed or 6th sense. I don’t really recall an episode where it was useful for Panthro to that only he could do in order to save the Cats. That’s what I’m getting at. They need to give Panthro some special ability that is uniquely his. (I guess you could argue the same for Wily Kit and Kat, but I honestly didn’t care one way or the other for them anyways).
Can’t recall the episode, but Panthro had (in my opinion) the funniest and most intimidating line in the whole series when he was fighting mutants and said “Gonna loosen up your BONES for ya!!” (or something along those lines). Panthro needs more 1 liners like this. A LOT more, because that is my favorite line of the whole series.
In short, I think the most room for character improvement and to make a great character even better, is with Panthro, and I hope the writers get creative with him.
Nah, you can’t have all of the Thundercats behaving themselves. They should make Panthro quick-tempered (like the old series) with the ability to pound the enemy’s face in. Now that’s entertainment LOL
Joaquim Dos Santos will be the animation director for the new series:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1666278/fullcredits#cast
Here is some of his work: (G.I.Joe Resolute)
He also did the background art for the ThunderCats Cartoon Network game.
Gives you some idea how the ThunderCats could be styled for the new series.
I would be thrilled if the new animation looks like the background art he did for Cartoon Network.
Aw, Hell yeah!!! That’s great news! I loved the look of GI Joe Resolute!!