Knightmare series 1-3 (the “golden age”) was very, very different to series 4 onwards. No coincidence I’m sure that between series 4 there was a change of director!
Judging by the dates it would probably be the very end of season three or season four onwards I seen.
Probably season 4 onwards then. I saw Knightmare from the very beginning, season 3 was when I first understood exactly how it worked, and fell in love with the series.
Season 4 had big changes. It was in season 4 that Treguard gained an assistant, Pickle; also they started using “outdoor” chambers. But those changes were really more cosmetic and didn’t affect the game play.
What did affect the game play was that the wall monsters were replaced with door monsters who just asked true or false questions (although that’s still better than no riddles at all!); and the addition of the eye shield slowed the pace down a lot. It was doubtless due to this that the final team of the season had to abandon their quest when just three or four rooms from the end. Naughty producers!
I am sure if I had been a bit older to understand Knightmare at the time, I would probably have loved it.
Probably. Like I say, it’s a legitimate candidate for the title “best kids show ever”, which yes, is an impossible absolute to award, but if you were going to try, there are certain names without which no shortlist would be complete. Although I don’t watch it, I respect that “The Simpsons” has an equally legitimate place on said shortlist. “Thundercats” arguably another, and “Thunderbirds” definitely another!
Oh, I watched a bit more DotE last night; “The Sleeper Awakes”, “Diamonds Are A Ming’s Best Friend” and “The Men Of Frost”. All good solid episodes. The last of these, Ming’s plan is roughly a cross between those in “Root Of Evil” and “Cold War”.
Also, while it is mentioned that Dynak is indeed back online later on in the episode, I still think “Battleground” is right to come next after it (a rare piece of good thinking with the original order, as they are consecutive on the DVD!), as Dynak is down for diagnostics or something at the start of that. It makes perfect sense, once Ming is foiled at the end of “The Men Of Frost” for Rick to take Dynak offline and give her a thorough once-over to make sure there are no lingering problems.
And indeed, “Battleground” is next on my list to watch, followed by “Cold War” and “Lothar’s Homecoming”.
I think I watched ‘Battleground’ last week. Isn’t it the one with the giant slugs. That was a pretty good episode from what I recall of it.
That’s the one. Those slugs also get name-checked in “Cold War” hence that episode being pushed back until after “Battleground” in the continuity order!
“Battleground” was the first episode I saw as an adult, I remind you. And while it’s an OK episode, it wasn’t the best re-introduction to the show. Apart from the fact that someone had recorded over the first couple of minutes, it uses the inferior animation studio I’ve mentioned before, and Kshin is just really annoying in it.
The fact that the other two episodes on the tape were “The Panther Peril” and “Fury Of The Deep” didn’t help. All three episodes are basically the same idea, Ming wants to control animals and get them to do his dirty work for him. “Battleground”, OK, but as I’ve said, low-quality animation and the first couple of minutes missing, then “The Panther Peril” one of the two or three worst episodes in the whole series (why didn’t they take the key card with them?!). “Fury Of The Deep” is also OK, but a bit B-movie-ish at times.
So there was nothing on that tape to really show me why I loved that series as a kid! And as I’ve mentioned many times, the Prince Kro-Tan movie adventure really did turn my opinion around 180 degrees!
If there was one lesson to be learned from 80’s cartoons:
If you want to be a successful super villain do not include the use of controlling animals/creatures to do your will into your plan to take over the world.
It didn’t work for Ming, Cobra Commander, Skeletor, Miles Mayhem, Shredder or Dr Claw. There is probably other villains that tried it also.
Doubtless.
Who’s Miles Mayhem?
I can’t remember what Shredder’s animal plan was, unless you’re talking about the Frogs: Atila, Genghis, Rasputin and Napoleon!
And I certainly don’t remember what Skeletor or Dr Claw tried on the animal front. And obivously I never saw GI Joe, so Cobra Commander’s plan I don’t know in the first place.
Speaking of Dr Claw, that reminds me, the way he’s only ever seen from Blofeldian camera angles, the same treatment was accorded Ming in his opening scene in “Escape From Mongo” - we don’t see his face until he says about Flash, “his family will lead us to him”.
Miles Mayhem was the main villain in MA.S.K. and the leader of V.E.N.O.M.
Skeletor had plans involving different creatures. Notably the Shadow Beasts and a Dragon.
Well in Shredder’s case aside from the Frogs, there was all the other mutants he created.
Cobra Commander had some Ludacris plans. in the Pyramid of Darkness 5 part mini-series he left weird creatures similar to mogwai, giant gremlins on-board a spaceship as a trap for the Joes. And in Cobra’s Creatures he uses a mind control device to take over the minds of animals including the pets of the Joe team members, most notably Mutt’s dog Junkyard.
I seem to recall Dr Call having control f some animals. Speaking of him it always annoyed me that we never saw his face in the cartoon. Just the toy line.
http://forum.rebelscum.com/photogallery/showphoto.php/photo/13146/title/dr-claw-unmasked/cat/500
Personally I think Ming from DOTE was a very underrated villain and should be included with Mumm-Ra, Skeletor, Megatron, Cobra Coomander and Shredder when talking about the best cartoon villains of the 80’s. In comparison to some of them at times he was a somewhat competent warrior and not a coward. I would definitely rate him higher than Cobra Commander and Shredder.
Ah. I never saw that show. I heard a few things about it, and I remember there was one time I got VENOM from MASK mixed up with Viper from King Arthur And The Knights Of Justice.
Personally I think Ming from DOTE was a very underrated villain and should be included with Mumm-Ra, Skeletor, Megatron, Cobra Coomander and Shredder when talking about the best cartoon villains of the 80’s. In comparison to some of them at times he was a somewhat competent warrior and not a coward. I would definitely rate him higher than Cobra Commander and Shredder.
Abso-fraggin’-lutely, dammit! Indeed he wasn’t a coward, and he only withdrew when the situation was beyond all hope. Ming is definitely one of the great cartoon villains. One of my all-time favourite baddie lines is in the DotE opener, “Escape From Mongo”:
FLASH: You murdered my wife!
MING: And I promise the same fate for you, Flash Gordon!
How evil is that!
Another good 80s villain is Overlord from Spiral Zone. He’s no coward either, he’s very clever, and there’s actually quite a few episodes where he does come out on top, “Zone Of Darkness” springs to mind, and also, in particular “Duchess Treat” - that episode was a MAJOR victory for the bad guys, no two ways about it.
Ming had a real sinister vibe to him like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars. He was confident in his abilities and his troops.
I must watch Spiral Zone sometime, never seen it, just the intro.
M.A.S.K. was pretty cool, a bit like a cross between G.I. Joe and Transformers. Secret agents with powerful helmets/masks and vehicles that could transform.
There was the odd moment where he expressed a less than admiring opinion of them!
I must watch Spiral Zone sometime, never seen it, just the intro.
Possibly the naffest intro of any 80s cartoon ever. If you do give it a go, then spiral-zone.com is the place to check out, there’s links to all the episodes. Here’s the recommended viewing:
IMPORTANT EPISODES (for reasons of either backstory or continuity)
4. Mission Into Evil - pilot*
10. The Unexploded Pod
30. The Last One Picked
31. So Shall Ye, Reaper
34. Bandit And The Smokies
STANDOUT EPISODES
6. Small Packages*
12. The Imposter
15. The Sands Of Amaran
21. The Mind Of Gideon Rorshak*
33. Zone Of Fear*
60. Brother’s Keeper
OTHER INTERESTING EPISODES
24. The Man Who Wouldn’t Be King
45. A Little Zone Music
53. Duchess Treat
55. Assault On The Rock
OK, that came to more than I expected, 15 episodes. The ones marked with * are the ones I would prioritise more. 30, 31 and 34 introduce the new characters on either side. Although Rawmeat, introduced in episode 34, appears already in episode 33, someone goofed on the continuity front!
M.A.S.K. was pretty cool, a bit like a cross between G.I. Joe and Transformers. Secret agents with powerful helmets/masks and vehicles that could transform.
Interesting. From what I’ve heard about those helmets, that sounds a bit like Arzon’s staff of Knowledge in Visionaries.
He was ruler of Mongo and possibly some other planets thanks to them.
No, the M.A.S.K. helmets were nothing like Arizon’s staff. Each mask had a different ability. They could shoot magnetic/ anti gravity rays, stilettos/ darts, electric whip, tornados, mud, lasers, fire, bright light, spectrum lights, sounds and holographs etc. There was one that give the wearer super strength.
OK, I was misinformed, I heard that some of them granted special knowledge of things. I suppose the staffs in general are a reasonable comparison to the masks though still.
They are a good comparison, although in some ways the staffs powers were a lot cooler. A bad guy unleashing a giant green beast of destruction is a lot better than some guy blasting mud balls out of the mouth of his helmet.
Speaking of helmets, when I was a child I loved figures that came with helmets. All the M.A.S.K. and Visionaries figures had them. 
I always thought that Hasbro really didn’t market the Visionaries right. With the current technology they could release them and the figures would be able to change into their animal for, a bit like the Animorph figures from the late 90’s. To me it seemed weird that the toys really didn’t incorporate this, or pack them with a no moveable animal toy like the G.I. Joe’s that came with their pets. The whole man changing into animal was the main theme of the show. It’s like in the 80’s if they had released Transformers toys that didn’t change but in the cartoon did. (In some ways it would have been better as some of the robot modes were awful due to their transformation, Megatron being the main example.
In the 80’s it would have been cool if they had released double packs of the totem animal and the staff’s totem. For example Cryotek’s totem pack would be a bear and a big archer warrior. Same with Cindar’s ape and big beast with sword. The staff totems could even have been made out of coloured clear plastic.
Interesting thoughts.
Yes, there should have been some external manifestation of the powers, certainly the totems.
With the staffs it’s not so clear, because in the comic series, the staffs worked a little differently; Witterquick/Cryotek just got super fast/strong when using their staffs, Arzon just suddenly knew all the answers when he used his, etc.
That’s interesting, I wonder how the comics showed Cryotek, Cindarr and Lexor’s staff totems. I can’t say I ever seen or read the Visionaries or DOTE comics. I have seen them on EBay now and then.
To me I think the idea of a large not to articulated figure would have been very cool. For play value alone, a giant creature has so much potential to integrate with other toy lines regardless of whether the child likes the cartoon or other figures, to them its just and awesome big creature. When I was getting a toy bought to me in the shop, and if it was a special occasion and I was allowed something large in the higher price range if I had seen for example a big toy of Cindarr’s staff totem, that would have been grabbed in an instant. It could have been used as a giant ghost to battle the Ghostbusters, some alien creature Ming captured to use against the Defenders, a random monster for He-Man or Lion-O to battle etc.
Cryotek just became super strong, as I said, just as Witterquick became super fast. Lexor just sort of developed an invicibility force-field thingy round his body, Cindarr’s staff I think caused earthquakes. Cravex’s staff of fear just gave everyone the shivers rather than causing one person to hallucinate.
To me I think the idea of a large not to articulated figure would have been very cool. For play value alone, a giant creature has so much potential to integrate with other toy lines regardless of whether the child likes the cartoon or other figures, to them its just and awesome big creature. When I was getting a toy bought to me in the shop, and if it was a special occasion and I was allowed something large in the higher price range if I had seen for example a big toy of Cindarr’s staff totem, that would have been grabbed in an instant. It could have been used as a giant ghost to battle the Ghostbusters, some alien creature Ming captured to use against the Defenders, a random monster for He-Man or Lion-O to battle etc.
You’re right again, something like that could have enormous potential. Ghostbusters in particular out of the ones you mentioned. Also, with the Defenders, it could have been an effective stand-in for one of the Night-Giants in “Doorways Into Darkness” or even Suramong!
I am not too sure who Suramong is.