Lovely story! Don’t worry to bother us, you don’t.
Unfortunately, I didn’t like Catfight. It had a good premise, but failed in so many ways IMO:
[ol]
[li]The moment it was aired. Sure by that time Lion-O and the others should have known the new ones pretty well to consider them traitors.[/li][li]Relating it to ThunderCats-HO!, wouldn’t Jaga warn Lion-O about them?[/li][li]Bengali -with his useless hammer- vs. Panthro with his nunchucks? Come on! We all know what would have been the outcome for that.[/li][li]No Tygra and the kittens.[/li][/ol]
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I guess I have the opposite views. I actually liked Catfight’s story quite bit. Compared to many of the other Season 2,3,4 episodes, it had a much better story.
[ol]
[li]I think the three ThunderCats still were quite new when Catfight came out (immediately after Mumm-Ra Lives!). The timing of the episode was perfect. The three had just become ThunderCats in the previous five episodes, so I can believe that the older TCats would have that much trust in them. If Catfight had been released later in the series, then I would have agreed with what you said that it would have seemed unlikely for the older TCats to doubt the new because by then they had been together for much longer.[/li][/ol]
[INDENT]If you remember, in the end of Spitting Image, Lion-O says: “I guess I should have realized that clone could never have been the real Panthro. No true Thundercat would have done all that!” So in a way he is hinting that for a brief moment even he believed that Panthro had turned evil. Now if Lion-O could doubt someone whom he had known for so long, it is believable that the old TC would doubt the new TC.
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Jaga was always a contrivance that the writers used when they didn’t want to use their heads too much! :biggrin
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I think that might be the main reason why you don’t like the episode. Tygra’s absence!
(just kidding!) 
[/INDENT]
The thing that I absolutely hate about Catfight is its terrible animation! :mad:
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I did say it was a good plot for an episode, and you’re right in that it was way better than mane season 2 eps. Anyway, my replies
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[li]You’re right. I was confusin the airing time with another epsode’s. Yes, the timing was good.Still though, why would Mumm-Ra take so much trouble in capturing “evil” Thunderians instead of turning them into his allies? And Jaga not warning Lion-O right from the start still bothers me, although I get your point :)[/li][li](or 4, actually lol). You’re not that far from the truth! 85% of my dislike is Tygra’s absence lol… Maybe if he took part in the action I’d have liked it a little -or much- more :tygra[/li][/ol]
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That thing bugs me too. No real reason to exclude Tygra other than to make the animators’ work easier. And why does poor Tygra always get stuck with the Kittens? 
I think Tygra and the Kittens were probably the most “excluded” heroes in the series. One or the other (or sometimes both) were usually absent from many episodes. I can understand the Kittens often being left out, they were kids after all, but no logical reason to leave Tygra out.
He was (or could have been) a very interesting character but was instead either left out or made the victim. Even visually, Tygra’s design is more eye-catching than Panthro’s.
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What series were you attempting to rewatch? I have had a similar experience with GI Joe lately.
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I think - and I’m not justifying neither excusing anyone here, because, you know, there’s no justification neither excuse for Tygra being absent from any ep at all lol- it was a mix of laziness, context and popularity.
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[li]Drawing and animating Tygra, with all the stripes and shades in his clothes, might have been much more difficult than working on Panthro and/or Cheetara (I think that’s why he got full clothing, so they wouldn’t have to bother with every stripe while drawing and animating him). [/li]
[li]The 80s context with all the feminism arising… Cheetara had to be a strong character, and writing her off of many episodes would have been seen as sexist or chauvinist. So it was up to the males, but unfortunately…[/li][li]I guess Panthro was more popular among children (don’t ask me why… I guess because of the strong/badass thing), so Tygra got the short end of the stick. [/li][/ol]
There were several episodes in which his absence was unjustified, like in “Terror of Hammerhand”, “Cat Fight”, “Ravage Island” and almost 50% of season 2 (especially the post- Return to Thundera eps). I know not every TC could have been present all the time, and that it would have taken a lot of work and I’m cool with him being absent in some eps (the trial of cunning -although he could have made a cameo- or “Tight Squeeze” -there was a cameo in that one!), but they could have alternate them. Like Cheetara being absent from “The mountain” and “The Superpower potion” (although I’m not sure the part Tygra got in the latter… maybe it would have been better for him to be absent lol).
That’s a reason why I liked “Together We Stand”, because I think it was the only episode where Pantrho took the short end (he might have been away in other eps, but those were eps were the New TCs took the action… whenever the old TCs were involved, Panthro was a sure presence).
And that’s also why I think a rotation system for the TCs to look after Third Earth once they got back to New Thundera would have been the best thing to do (or, no New Thundera at all lol).
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I totally agree with your comment on Tygra’s design. I never fully appreciated it as a child but his design is definitely one of the best!
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I think that was part of his problem: he wasn’t that attractive to kids,althopugh many young people and adults seem to like him better and place him amongst their favorites. I think he was a character designed more for adults.
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I wonder if a lot of the time they left out Tygra because when invisible he could pretty much do anything to save the day, and Lion-O had to be the hero . . .
I agree about “Together We Stand” - while the episode is nothing remarkable in itself, it’s the first episode of only a small handful from which Panthro is absent. Also, it’s Lion-O and Tygra who jointly save the day.
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Agreed. His personality is more mature but the complexity of his character becomes more evident as we age. Even things such as his shyness and addictive personality lend to his depth of character.
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He was often “the fall guy” for things like that. They couldn’t have Lion-O in that position because he was the hero, it couldn’t be Cheetara because they’d be worried they were being sexist, and they couldn’t make it Panthro because they might be worried about being called racist.
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Reminds me of the “nice guys finish last” phrase
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You gave me something to think there with the invisibility. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s the route. Tygra’s invisibility didn’t prevent writers from making Lion-O the hero in many eps, so leaving him aside doesn’t make sense for some other eps. But you might have a point there.
Yes, in “Together We Stand”, they both saved the day, but at the end of the day it was Lion-O’s idea to plug their ears, so…
I like to think the kittens ask to go on field/space trips with Tygra because they find him calm and patient (not like grouchy Panthro) and that with him they might learn something useful (not with like inmature Lion-O)… but that’s only my theory (or make-up-for-Tygra fantasy) lol
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I tried re-watching many shows, Jayce and the Wheeled Warrior, Ghostbusters, He-Man, Centurions, the later episodes of TMNT. I’m not saying that they are all bad, but I just couldn’t quite get totally immersed in them. I really wanted to though. But I don’t plan to give up just yet, I will watch them again after some time, until I get the hang of them.
The R.O.C.K.S. discussion thread that Liam, Mark M and myself have started is a perfect “excuse” to watch such old shows. In our earlier discussion we watched some episodes of “Transformers” and I enjoyed them a lot.
A very good point! I agree. Now that I think about it, apart from Tygra’s complicated design (stripes and all), his character was probably the most mature of them all (even though Panthro was the oldest). And that is not a trait that kids really like! Someone who tells them to follow the rules and always do the right thing and be responsible and is no fun at all.
As you said, Panthro was more of a bad-ass, thanks to his martial arts, Nunchucks, temper, and, probably the biggest reason why he was most likely chosen to appear over Tygra… he drives the ThunderTank!!! The two are inseparable and R/B also most likely wanted the tank to appear as often as possible to promote sales of its toy.
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Absolutely on the Thundertank! Part of the attraction to that was its music. The Thundertank theme is the coolest bit of incidental music out there! Panthro’s own theme is melodically similar, albeit in a different rhythm (4/4 instead of 12/8).
And on ROCKS - yes, it is an excuse. I saw Transformers for pretty much the first time there, and have been watching it steadily since. We also covered Defenders Of The Earth and Superman The Animated Series last year - if anyone has any points to add on the selected episodes, please do scroll down to the threads in question and chip in, we’d love to hear from you, the more the merrier!
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But, for being the “mature guy”, he got trapped a lot LOL… You’d expect the “mature one” to be more careful and cautious, specially after the first times
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I continue to watch older cartoons myself, now sharing them with my kids as well to get their reactions. It would just be nice to have more time. As you previously stated, as an adult it seems like you constantly have something on your mind or you have to do. Ugh responsibilities.
With Tygra I also feel the writers did him a detriment by not playing up his scientific and architectural abilities. We often saw Panthro building or fixing things but Tygra got few instances where one of his formulas or designs were essential to saving the team. I actually feel like they played up Vulturemans smarts much more. Also, I wonder how much his weapon played into his potential lack of popularity. I think in general kids think of nunchucks and swords as cooler than a whip.
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You’re so right!
I have never thought how little his scientific / architectural abilities were used compared to Panthro’s and/or Vultureman’s. I did want to see more of his scientific side, but never thought of how much it could be used to increase his popularity by making them save teh day once ina while. I think “Wolfrat” is the exception (not even in “Pumm-Ra”, where he claimed to have designed the CatsLair so he should be the one entering it, the architectural thing was highlighted).
About the whip, you might eb right, although I used to find it very attractive as a weapon, even as a kid. It had many more “uses” than the nunchucks, and it could turn him invisible!
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“The Wolfrat” is the obvious standout episode to highlight Tygra’s skills as saving the day. He makes the antidote to the shrinking potion in his lab.
“Pumm-Ra” does give him some credit, Jaga tells Lion-O that Tygra is right and should be the one to go after Lion-O argued that he’s the one with the sword. Also, in that episode, Tygra pins down Mumm-Ra don’t forget!
Other episodes that give some mention of Tygra’s skills include the designing of Cat’s Lair, as well as:
“Return Of The Driller” - Tygra and Panthro are jointly identified as being responsible for this new fuel.
“Thundercubs” - Tygra designs the modifications for the Feliner, Panthro says, “what you can design, I can build.”
“Crystal Canyon” - we see Tygra working on some plan for something, I forget what.
As for his weapon being a whip, that’s an interesting point. From a kid’s perspective it’s not the most obviously dangerous weapon, although it certainly can do damage. On the other hand, it does turn him invisible (although not initially, in the early episodes he turns invisible without his whip!). Leoric in Visionaries also had a whip for a weapon, and frequently used it to pull an opponent’s weapon out of his hand, or another opponent’s legs out from under him.
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