Cheetara (alone on an American series 2 card!)

Collecting LJN ThunderCats Toys
1

Don’t know if anyone noticed this, but I’ve spotted a Cheetara MOC on Ebay THAT is on a series 2 American card!

Here is the link and it’s a buy-it-now auction set at $120:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Toys-LTD-Thundercats-Cheetara-Figure-1986-New_W0QQitemZ260000896860QQihZ016QQcategoryZ16476QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is the first time I have ever seen this piece. I’m not interested because I have the UK Rainbow Toys version, so the American counterpart can wait for me. Maybe someone else is interested though?

However the seller is from South Korea, which figures as these probably got exported there at the end of the lines run in the USA.

2

I have the one you have blackiecats so it can wait for me also, but did you happen to see the Wilykit that same seller is selling. A $300 BIN and the piece happens to look like it was kicked around on the floor (it looks about a C2). That’s crazy I doubt he will sell that one

3

First time Ive seen that one too…I have the UK version and although it would be nice to have the American version cash unfortunately is not plentiful these days :frowning:

4

Something fishy on that Cheetara. All yellow with no flesh tone… Also look at the logo on the front. You can see it looks like a rectangle sticker was removed that went from the H in Thundercats to the T… Also there is a foreign language sticker on the very bottom of the bubble. It has kanji writting but I can’t make out exactly what it says. Smells like a KO to me. Regardless I would not consider this to be an american card even if it is not a KO. It was very typical of toys showing up in the 80’s over in Asia that were carded exactly like the american versions but included a small sticker on the back or front of the card. This happened with Star Wars, Transformers, etc…

Update:
The sticker is visible on the Tuska he has on auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250000963408&ssPageName=MERC_VI_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT

The Wily also has the sticker on the bottom front and both Wily and Cheetara have it placed on the card under the bubble. The sticker states 1988 so it was distributed one way or another in 88.

5

Nice observation there Jaga that totally went overlooked by me. Regardless of the sticker the date in the back of the Cheetara is 1986 so it is an American card. I cant explain the difference in colors on the Thundercats logo but it looks mighty strange

6

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Something fishy on that Cheetara. All yellow with no flesh tone…
[/QUOTE]

My Rainbow Toys Cheetara is the yellow tone and the seller who I bought my Cheetara from had another Rainbow Toys Cheetara and that was also the yellow skin tone.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Also look at the logo on the front. You can see it looks like a rectangle sticker was removed that went from the H in Thundercats to the T… Also there is a foreign language sticker on the very bottom of the bubble. It has kanji writting but I can’t make out exactly what it says. Smells like a KO to me.
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Yeah, saw the sticker, but I’m not too sure it’s a knock off. However thinking about it, it’s probably not worth paying $120 for in hindsight.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Regardless I would not consider this to be an american card even if it is not a KO. It was very typical of toys showing up in the 80’s over in Asia that were carded exactly like the american versions but included a small sticker on the back or front of the card. This happened with Star Wars, Transformers, etc…
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but at the end of the day, they would have been the exact same as the American releases and probably from the same production run. Maybe this particular card was never on an American shop shelf, but it’s cool all the same. I mean, it does have the US mailing address for the free Mumm-Ra figure so it’s quite possible it could have sold within the US if the toy line had carried on.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
The Wily also has the sticker on the bottom front and both Wily and Cheetara have it placed on the card under the bubble.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know. That Wilykit is god awful! I was shocked to see how much the seller wants! I’d want 2 decentish Wilykit’s for that price!:eyepopping:

[QUOTE=Jaga]
The sticker states 1988 so it was distributed one way or another in 88.
[/QUOTE]

This fits with my thinking. It’s likely these were leftovers shipped to Asia to sell off quick. 1988 would have been the year, right at the end of the US run of the toys.

7

Here is a good picture of the sticker:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/asian_tuska_back2.jpg

It states 1988 as far as distribution goes but is an American card with copyright date of 1986. This is the same sticker that is on the front of the package sealed under the bubble.

Here is a picture of a Euro released figure that also has the 1986 copyright. It is a 14 back exactly the same as the Cheetara but with a Euro sticker:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/100_0221.jpg

Both of these are American cards but are not American releases. They should in no way be considered American cards due to the attached stickers. They should be catagorized as Euro and Asian and not American.

8

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Here is a good picture of the sticker:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/asian_tuska_back2.jpg

It states 1988 as far as distribution goes but is an American card with copyright date of 1986. This is the same sticker that is on the front of the package sealed under the bubble.

Here is a picture of a Euro released figure that also has the 1986 copyright. It is a 14 back exactly the same as the Cheetara but with a Euro sticker:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/100_0221.jpg

Both of these are American cards but are not American releases. They should in no way be considered American cards due to the attached stickers. They should be catagorized as Euro and Asian and not American.
[/QUOTE]

The Euro sticker (as you refer to it) wasn’t applied to the cards by LJN. It was applied by the importing company so they could sell the figures within the UK. By UK law, all toys must have an age range on the packaging. Those stickers display the age guide to parents. Without those stickers ?Stretcher could not sell them. We were recently given this information by someone who knows their stuff when it comes to UK Thundercats releases.

So basically, they were imported to sell here. They were not made specifically for the UK market. I’m guessing the same applies to the Cheetara that has the Asian sticker.

9

I am aware of the laws for why they put the stickers on as it is required in most countries to sell toys. As far as the Asian sticker goes this was applied at the factory. On the Cheetara and Wily it is under the bubble.

The one thing people have to realize is that these are manufactured in China. The cards are made in China, the figures are made in China, they are packaged in China, and they are boxed in shipper cases and packaged in China. The stickers even for a foreign language card would be applied prior to shipping.

Usually when toys like these show up the factories use the remaining stock of packages to make figures for orders in other country. The cost of adding a sticker with a countries info to sell that item is sooooooo much cheaper then creating and printing the cards.

My biggest point is a figure that has one of these stickers even though it is on an all American card is not an American issue. It is catergorized this way on other toy lines like Star Wars and Transformers and should be categorized for Thundercats also this way. In my 15 years of collecting and selling it has always been like this for all toy lines I have come accross including Thundercats.

10

So take out the Chinese sticker or Euro sticker with a little bit of Goo Gone and voila you have yourself an ALL American card :smiley:

11

That may work on the Euro sticker placed on the card back but the ones like Cheetara would require removing the bubble since half of it is under it.

12

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Usually when toys like these show up the factories use the remaining stock of packages to make figures for orders in other country. The cost of adding a sticker with a countries info to sell that item is sooooooo much cheaper then creating and printing the cards.
[/QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying Jaga, but the only reason those cards have the stickers is because it was likely decided to sell that stock overseas (but I’m betting had sales been better, those exact figures would have been US stock, sold in America.

Most countries that received these stickered imports already had their own carded Thundercats. At this time the Toy Options headed carded would have been rife in the UK. Before that it would have been cards with Rainbow Toys headers and a UK based address to send off for your free Mummy Mumm-Ra figure.

What I’m saying is, those can be classed as US cards because they are the exact same as what would have been sold in the US (except for the sticker)

Recently we got MOTU 200x figures in the UK that were meant to be sold in the US only. Sky Strike Stratos, Teela and Evil Lyn never got an official UK release over here, but we got them as imports. I bought Teela and Evil Lyn over here, but I don’t regard them as being on Euro cards. They are on American cards regardless of where I bought them, because they were originally intended for sale in America. Same with that Cheetara.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
My biggest point is a figure that has one of these stickers even though it is on an all American card is not an American issue. It is catergorized this way on other toy lines like Star Wars and Transformers and should be categorized for Thundercats also this way. In my 15 years of collecting and selling it has always been like this for all toy lines I have come accross including Thundercats.
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mmm well you have your way of seeing things and I have mine. To be honest it makes no difference to our guide, because it’s categorized as an English release guide meaning figures that appeared on an English card will appear in the main guide (this includes American LJN and British Rainbow Toys and Toy Options headed cards and probably the Canadian Grand Jouets cards too, despite the fact they also have French on them)

All other figures headed on European and South American cards will go in the section Foreign Figures

13

So here is an example I would love to hear opinions on:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/takara-vader-12back.jpg

This is a 12 Back Vintage Darth Vader. It is an American Kenner card that is exactly the same in every way to a released in America Kenner 12 Back Vader. The only difference is that sticker on the front put on by Takara. So would this be an American release or “American Carded” Darth Vader? It was released using the same exact card back and figure but the difference is it was released in Japan.

Also I am curious to what people think the value of something like Bengali is on one of the cards that has these stickers. The picture above example of the Euro sticker is from one of my Bengali figures in my collection. To me a true US carded Bengali is worth more then the Euro version or any other foreign carded Bengali.

I know if I purchased a figure that had one of these stickers and was told it was a US carded figure and not informed of the sticker I would be pretty upset.

Please realize I am not trying to nit pick this. If you are shooting for the best guide possible I would think that even the smallest variation or difference should be noted. Unfortunately there is no more LJN to get some of these mysteries answered.

14

Would it be possible that those figures were sent from the US to Japan and then the sticker was placed on them when it reached Japan?..Cant see the Bengali you are speaking of, could you post pics? I have never seen any Bengalis with such stickers on it so it would be interesting to see.
Now a days with the demand for Thundercats, specifically figures like Bengali, collectors are more keen to complete their collections with a foreign version or a US version. I dont think there are too many collectors out the who want to finish their collections and are so picky as to only want a figure if it is a US release or US carded. From following Thundercats within the last few years I havent really noticed a difference of prices because it was a European,Canadian or American card…people want them period and are willing to pay whatever it is for them. A year ago carded Bengalis were going for just over $200 and now people are paying over $400 for a foreign version (see here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6064700791&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting) I think IMO that a carded Bengali wether it is foreign or not is worth aproximately the same. Collectors just want to have the carded figures foreign or not and will pay whatever it takes to have them

Note: Please notice the 2 stickers in the back of the Bengali on that auction…guess its the first Ive seen with them

15

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/100_0222.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/100_0223.jpg

That one in the auction you posted Manny is a Germany one and half of them came with the 2 stickers but I have seen them with only one. You can see one of my Bengalis that I was referring to earlier that is an American language only card but has the Euro sticker. I call it a Euro sticker because it was not just released like this in the UK but in Germany also.

As far as prices go on Bengali I agree that most people that have gotten in to collecting Thundercats have paid whatever the price for any version. The price has been pretty steady on them since about 2000 - 2001. Dealers were consistant with charging around $250 for a decent condition US carded one. It hasn’t been a surge in price until about 6 months ago which we all keep making comments about.

16

NIce Bengali you got there…you should send it in to get graded I bet it would score a 80 or higher

17

[QUOTE=Jaga]
So here is an example I would love to hear opinions on:

http://home.comcast.net/~tcat-jaga/takara-vader-12back.jpg
[/QUOTE]

I couldn’t comment as I know zero facts about the Kenner Star Wars toyline. I’m not really a huge Star Wars fan to be honest. I’ve enjoyed the films, but that’s as far as it goes.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Also I am curious to what people think the value of something like Bengali is on one of the cards that has these stickers. The picture above example of the Euro sticker is from one of my Bengali figures in my collection. To me a true US carded Bengali is worth more then the Euro version or any other foreign carded Bengali.
[/QUOTE]

I think Jaga is right here. An all English card will sell better than a German or French card. Believe me, some American and British collectors are very picky! Trust me, I’ve spoken to them!

However, there seems to be one major difference between the Bengali sold in the US and the Bengali imported to the UK. That’s the name sticker. Most of (if not all) the imported Bengali’s do not have a name sticker with the NEW above it in a yellow star shape. I can only assume that they had run out of these for Bengali because the imported Lynx-o and Jaga both have their name stickers with word NEW in the yellow star) So considering that, I doubt it was done purposely and supports my theory that they were packaging up what was left and using existing packaging and materials that were available. When these figures were packed, I’m guessing all production on the line had stopped months before.

So considering this, if the UK imported Bengali had his name sticker (hand on heart here) I think the UK and US Bengali would sell for a similiar price. I know the US carded Bengali sells for more because of the rarity of finding one complete with name sticker.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
I know if I purchased a figure that had one of these stickers and was told it was a US carded figure and not informed of the sticker I would be pretty upset.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I would, mainly because of the sticker. Stickers reduce value of carded figures. However I’m not that picky because so long as the card is ALL English I’d still regard it as American LJN or UK Rainbow Toys (depending on the header)

[QUOTE=Jaga]
Please realize I am not trying to nit pick this. If you are shooting for the best guide possible I would think that even the smallest variation or difference should be noted. Unfortunately there is no more LJN to get some of these mysteries answered.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, don’t get me wrong! The stickers will certainly be mentioned and pointed out in the guide. It’s a very interesting debate indeed because like you say, the answers are lost as LJN no longer exists.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
That one in the auction you posted Manny is a Germany one and half of them came with the 2 stickers but I have seen them with only one.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, my Bengali is on that German card, but he only has the small sticker from that pic. I’m guessing the larger sticker was removed.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
You can see one of my Bengalis that I was referring to earlier that is an American language only card but has the Euro sticker. I call it a Euro sticker because it was not just released like this in the UK but in Germany also.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, that’s the imported Bengali. I’m guessing at the bottom of the card it says that it requires batteries? Most of the imported cards do. As for being released in German, I doubt it was imported directly to Germany because that is a UK age range sticker. If you saw these in Germany, then it’s likely they were imported there from the UK and not directly distributed to Germany.

[QUOTE=Jaga]
As far as prices go on Bengali I agree that most people that have gotten in to collecting Thundercats have paid whatever the price for any version. The price has been pretty steady on them since about 2000 - 2001. Dealers were consistant with charging around $250 for a decent condition US carded one. It hasn’t been a surge in price until about 6 months ago which we all keep making comments about.
[/QUOTE]

Yep and apparently in 1998, all these imported figures we are debating about sold for ?1.99 in UK ?Stretcher stores! Apparently they were imported by ?Stretcher and that’s why there is the UK age stickers on them. Dealers would have had a field day snapping all of them up and then later charging up to ?100 each for them!

Sadly, I didn’t have a ?Stretcher store near me, so I had no idea about this until recently.

One things for sure, you will never find an LJN carded Bengali for ?1.99 again!

18

I only put the picture up of Vader to show an example of a carded figure that was completely the same except for the sticker. It is known as a Takara issue and not Kenner. In price guides, books, and to collectors it is known as different and labeled that way. There is a price difference regarding the Takara issued one and the Kenner released version. This has also happened with newer figures from Star Wars in the PotF2 line where there was a sticker on the back.

My opinion on the Thundercats card variations is that each different one should be listed seperately by card language including the sticker.
US, UK, Canadian, Euro, French, German, South American, and Asian(did I miss any?). Considering that it was possible to buy Canadian versions in the US and German in the UK, etc…

Putting a value on each different one in a price guide would be too difficult. For instance. Lion-o is easier to find on a Rainbow card compared to US and others. Anyways a guide is going to pretty much a work in progress for years as there will be little varitions that pop up from time to time.

19

Speaking of variations has anybody ever seen an 8 back Lion O Red Haired on a LJN/Rainbow card?