Howdy
Now, for those of you who have seen all 130 epsiodes of T-Cats whats the best 5 parter in your opinion?
Vote and get your fave to win 
Also, just for my sake, could you say which you voted for and why and put the five parters in an order from best to worst? 
Thanks
Chris M
Iâd have to give my vote to âMumm-Ra Lives!â. This five parter was our first taste of what the new Thundercats were bringing to the table and introduced the Lunatacs. It is interesting that the only thing the Thundercats have over their new enemies is their ability to work together. This five parter would have been perfect if not for Snarfer.
i would say my faves are in this order
annointment trials
thundercats ho
mummra lives thundercubs and return to thundera
My vote is âThundercats, Ho!â because it introduced some new blood to the mix and did a pretty good job at bringing in some old faces (up until that point), good and evil.
The anointment trials are my second pick, because it puts Lion-O through his paces and highlights the strengths and weaknesses of the group. (Itâs the same o for the baddies, though, so no surprises there). Plus, I liked seeing what the outer rings to the Black Pyramid held, the introduction to Mathtet especially.
âMumm-Ra Lives!â is my third pick for the same reasons Tygra state above. I have to say the Luna-Taks were very formidable at the beginning, and itâs a shame they didnât stay that way.
âReturn to ThunDERaâ was okay in the new character department, but I just couldnât accept the planet being reformed and having to have a âpacemakerâ installed to keep it from going boom again.
âThundercubsââŠthe idea of Thundercats being turned into cubs again (for the second time) got old after âTime Switch.â Did we really need a five-parter about it?
Lion-Oâs Annointment Trials-Some of the best character developing episodes, plus plenty of action. The final part is one of my favourite episodes of the series, with Lion-O and Mumm-Raâs battle being an iconic moment in the series for me.
Thundercats, Ho!-Everyones in it! Its just exciting to see every character somehow find their way into the story, the new Thundercats are great and its just very exciting.
Mumm-Ra Lives!-I like the Lunataks, there clearly a bigger threat than the Mutants(though there not better characters;))And Mumm-Ra returning to health is interesting.
Thundercubs-I really didnt care about seeing the Thundercubs again, but overall quite enjoyed the five parter. Slithe and Vultureman get a lot to do as well, and there two of my favourite characters. And Mumm-Ra gets the sword of Plundarr.
Return to Thundera-I didnt care for the new characters like Jagara, or Thundera being reformed. The Mutants return, but only for one episode, which is a shame. The lunataks are missing completely, and I just felt it dragged along.
BEST
1/Annointment Trials (each Thundercat gets their own episode where they face Lion-o. Just overall a great arc)
2/Ho! The Movie (what movie just about features all the characters!, plus Bengali is cool!)
3/Mumm-Ra Lives (Carries story on from after Ho! The Movie so had to place it above Thundercubs)
4/Thundercubs
5/Return to Thundera (didnât like the idea of Thunderia reforming and they left Tygra out in these episodes)
[B]WORST
[/B]Basically, the further the series went on, the episodes started to go down hill. Series 4 (or the last 20 episodes) are not nearly as good as the first 90 episodes. Series 3 is cool, especially The Last Day. But itâs not as great as series 1 and 2 were. To be honest after Series 3 I think they had run out of ideas.
Thundercubs - Parts 1-5, I love seeing young Jaga fought Ratilla (Ratar-Oâs great-great-great grandfather). I donât blame Jaga for Thunderaâs destruction, mind you; 
he didnât know that The Sword of Plun-darrâs powers could not be subdued; and also I thought Snarf and Snarfer look ubber cute as little Snarf-lings
I love Lion-Oâs trials personally
Favorite: The Anointment Trials
Ranking the rest:
Thundercubs = We got some history on Thundera, the return of Thundera, and some pretty epic battles thoughout. It was alot of fun.
Mumm-Ra Lives = The Introduction of the Lunatacs is the major thing to take away from this one, but there was alot of great stuff, including that moment where Mumm-Ra reveals that his reflection means nothing.
Thundercats Ho! = The entertainment factor of having so many Season 1 favorites show up make this one a treat, but there are ALOT of plotholes and inconsistancies that drag it down.
Return to Thundera = The show really took a downturn when they moved to New Thundera. This 5-Parter wasnât bad, but it took the show in a direction that wasnât the best.
My vote goes to ThunderCats Ho - introduced new blood, managed to include several characters without them forcing it and brought back several excellent one off characters (including Grune who I think, hands down, is the best bad guy besides Mumm-Ra). I absolutely loved the climax at the end with Mumm-Ra bringing himself down due to his greed and ambition for power and the music worked well. It also got turned into âthe movieâ which I owned on VHS and bought at a car-boot sale for very cheap. It was a great purchase.
I have to say, though, I donât mind some of the others. Mumm-Ra Lives started off alright but I never quite liked the idea of âThe Lunataksâ taking over the Mutantsâ position and making them look ridiculous. Slowly got worse from there.. ThunderCubs and Return to Thundera are actually fantastic five-parters for me as Mumm-Ra looked dominant and back in true form, properly threatning the ThunderCats and therefore making it an entertaining five episodes. I didnât quite like the ending with Mumm-Ra being beaten in such a ridiculous fashion with the spinner thing and it also didnât make sense as Mumm-Ra had done everything possible to destroy the ThunderCats.
The Anointment Trials are average, for me - I never quite got into them as much as everyone else does though the last episode is fantastic and comes across as an important episode, the rest of it is passable.
I know Iâm too late for the poll, but this is my ranking for the best five-part stories:
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]One p[/SIZE][SIZE=3]ivotal issue in the Thundercats saga was watching and following Lion-o step by step going from boyhood to manhood particularly on the mental and intellectual aspect since his physical prowess was pretty evident early on. Full blown bodily by the time he landed to Third earth due to the gas release capsule malfunction but on the other hand amateur and unskilled on the inside. More often than not young Lion-o relied on his impetuous character and hotheaded determination. Ethically, Leonardâs Starr idea to put him through the 5 parts trial proving so his worthiness instead of simply passing down the leadership by inheritance as the son of Claudus, was conforming to the principal of moral rightness, based on the unwritten law in life nothing is given away freely but strenuously earned. The young âcubâ on the eve of first dayâs trial had just turned 20 and needed to undergo many hardships outwardly but inwardly as well, in order to get the insignias, moreover, live up to the expectations of the heavy heritage he already carried. Each test revealed a specific attribute of Lion-oâs yet undeveloped personality and that was even more interesting and important than seeing him outrunning Cheetara or showcasing his inherent aptitude outwitting the Thunderkittens. Not only did he have to face the various obstacles thrown at him without the aid of the sword and the claw but above all confirm himself capable of undertaking serious responsibilities as a grown man in a leading position. Conspicuously, Lion-oâs behavior, after successfully completing the tests, changed by leaps and bounds leaving behind any puerile reminisces, naĂŻve decisions which resulted in rash miscalculated actions and a reckless demeanor that demanded Jagaâs often ethereal presence and guidance. Lion-oâs inexperience and lack of proper judgment was quite visible at the episodes ranging from 1 to 49 like in âTrouble with timeâ where he instantly opted to go alone in the cave of time instead of listening to Willaâs wise advise on what to do best, or falling victim to his curiosity and unknowingly releasing three of the galaxyâs worst criminals in âMandora the evil chaserâ, even worse lose the sword of omens, something that had been reiterated many times in the past. His juvenile side was also notable in the classic âRobin Hood vs Little Johnâ scene where he and Hachiman stubbornly pit against each other on a log overhanging the Four Day Drop. Rather than turning back and reasoning with his opponent Lion-oâs immature tactic was to cut further the log, stand his ground and avoid Naydaâs warning for retreat. Lion-oâs reasonable obsession and lament for his destroyed home planet but uncritically evaluative methods jeopardized the Thundercatâs tranquility when he gullibly agreed, without questioning the motives, into the mysterious Pumm-ra entering and staying with the team. The aforementioned examples unveil Lion-oâs callowness and an imminent need for a turning point in his upbringing. As a testament to his accomplishment after the trials finish Jagaâs frequency of appearance before him to instruct him in his lessons and adventures lessened. The final moment ensuing Mumm-raâs defeat inside his pyramid with the natives gathered around the lairâs gate to attend the ceremony and salute the triumphant young man, wearing the crown and the red cowl signifies both Lion-oâs unanimous acceptance as Lord of the Thundercats but also third Earthâs beacon of hope and justice establishing their power to the whole region and primarily ceasing the transition period from an ambiguous team leader to a mature, solid dominant figure with authoritative abilities, vastly accepted.[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Calibri]âFirst day-trial of powerâ [/FONT]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Lion-oâs anointment trial sets off with the difficult task to beat the mighty Panthro engaging in hand to hand combat. There lies the great antithesis and juxtaposition of the 5-trial parts. The underlying notion to act in accordance with the virtuous code of Thundera but contradictorily sacrifice sentiments of love and affection for the coexisting members of the team so as to achieve the predominant goal accentuates largely Lion-oâs determination to defy all emotional setbacks and focus entirely on his will to rise at the challenge at all costs. Seeing fellow countrymen and mutual partners who had already developed an elevated sense of devotion among them, being the sole survivors of their kind fight against each other, especially on Panthroâs case whom Lion-o had to confront by raising his hands and clenching fists, in order to abide by the rules, emitted strong feelings arousing further our interest in the reciprocal relationships of the main protagonists. As expected Panthro was out and away the strongest of the Thundercats members as far as physical power is concerned. The route to get there hid many traps and required Lion-o to display successfully his aggressive as well as brawny nature. The Acid lake, the Great white Void, the Vortex and the Crabmen tested his limits and self-preservation in, exploiting inventively the surrounding environment, the capacity to resist elemental oddities by relying on mere strength and instinct, making use of his vigor and endurance when abnormal phenomena bring about dangers, resorting to mind over muscle if the situation calls for it, respectively. I donât categorize it in my favorite trial episode because Lion-o was at the peak of his age, fully grown corporally and had already exhibited on previous occasions his muscular and athletic abilities, so I guess it was a rational outcome to beat Panthro. However, the completion of first dayâs trial made clear how strong and robust Lion-o could be, a characteristic necessary for a young and aspiring leader throbbing with energy and destined to cause world-wide awe and admiration. [/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Calibri]âSecond day-trial of speedâ[/FONT]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Its central point was to manifest Lion-oâs self-confidence and faith on his courageous volition despite the adversities at hand. It was a foregone conclusion that he will lose because no one could run faster than Cheetara at a straight flat out race. The vital source within him giving hope not to quit but keep on moving refusing any help or succumb to defeat was emphasized throughout the episodeâs challenges. The story process was very fast paced and literally one obstacle came right after the other driving us from land to sea and from the man eating Mandraga flower to the two headed Gaw Rak-Rak, the biggest creature Lion-o had to face during the trialsâ period. Probably, the most suspenseful episode since Cheetaraâs headway was obvious on most parts of the contest and the possibility of failure was looming even closer. Lion-o had a rough time nearly at every step he took extending from the less dangerous savage tribe of Pirrits to the excruciating and weakening poisonous fumes. What complicated the situation and compounded furthermore the predicament making us believe in Lion-oâs trounce was the fact that even though he chose in the first place to follow the harder but much shorter way heading west, betting so on winning Cheetara before she reached the finish line, they unexpectedly met on sundown at the last 5 miles to go. Nevertheless, Lion-o counting on his firm personality and undaunted soul didnât concede defeat and emphatically retorts to the female sprinterâs claim: âNo, I havenât lost until you wonâŠâ I believe this precise phrase speaks volume for his general mentality to start believing in himself and maturity progress. When it came down to the last 2 mile dash finish Cheetara without holding back any of her momentum got away, Lion-o seemed exhausted therefore at the monitor of the Lairâs control room the rest admitted the inevitable. Surprisingly though, Lion-o overexerted himself revealing his innermost source of power and spiritual stamina, winning the race. The psychological upside down was fantastic as well as Larry Kenneyâs voice poignantly conveying Lion-oâs constant intensity and plight. The animation was up to par with a lot of close-up captions and beautiful environmental depictions. My personal best anguish-ridden 5-last minutes of the whole trials! One of the few flawless Thundercats episodes, maintaining a high level of quality in artwork, storyline, lasting value and originality.[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Calibri]âThird day-trial of cunningâ[/FONT]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Third actâs main attraction was Lion-oâs demonstration of sharpness and ingenuity. The anointment trials in Third Earth hid one extra hurdle as compared to Thundera taking place. This big new planet was totally unexplored and uncharted without the candidate having full knowledge of the area aggravating so the conditions under which he had to wade through. The Maze of Infinity was like a huge cave with many secret roads, bewildering routes, confusing dead end courses and numerous natural or living dangers. The thunderkittens had already searched every nook and cranny setting traps, the disorienting environment along with their masterful practice of using deceptive tricks to baffle the opponent utilizing the benefits of a humongous network of interconnecting pathways gave them an apparent head start. Add to that Lion-oâs inexperience employing cunning or indirect methods to thwart an enemy since his usual strategy was let the encounterer make first his move and with the confidence and security of his sword and claw withstand any attack. His offensive and defensive style in battle depended almost entirely upon his skillful use of them. But inside the perilous labyrinth the only weapon available was his brains. He dealt any impediment he came up against exercising his mind over his muscles including the evasive actions to dodge the mutants whose appearance was mostly distinct, as in the fourth trial. Lion-oâs prudence could be readily seen when he risked failing the anointment test to talk with the strange Cave Dwellers and instead of turning away, rejecting conversation with these half-blind creatures; he measured the situation discerning their gentle and good temperament and cleverly chose to save their heritage by preventing Monkian from destroying the precious books. The Cave Dwellers were a very interesting race with historical significance as we hear them disclosing their story. Their existence attests to the plethora and diversity of inhabitants living in Third Earth each one bearing its own unique cultural identity like Tabbuts, Bolkins, or Wollows. At the run of 130 episodes we see Thunderacts interacting and making acquaintances of aboriginal populations but barring Berbils and the Warrior Maidens the other races havenât been analyzed or observed unfortunately to a higher degree considering the important past they would carry. A lot of spin-offs and storylines could be written in the future based on the various residents of Third Earth giving as a comprehensive look on the origin of this planet. [/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]By and large, during this episode Lion-o made the correct judgments and managed to be in lead turning things around to his own advantage. Remarkably, his correct decisions offered him a fair, and most likely the easiest, victory surpassing in smartness the mischief makers Wilykat and Kit leaving them behind as they started sprinting towards the exit. I was wondering why they didnât use the space boards inside the cave to harden things up for Lion-o; anyway it was a very nice and entertaining episode, largely for discovering Lion-oâs latent talents, besides his age shouldnât be older than theirs, actually a little younger!! [/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Calibri]âFourth Day-trial of mind powerâ[/FONT]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]So what was it that made so great this episode? I always considered Tygra the most enigmatic character out of all. Somehow his overall position in the team was overshadowed by Panthro and his jovial soul. Tygra was always presented as the level-headed type who kept a low profile and on a regular basis was reluctant to reveal emotions and bringing to view his internal world, thatâs why in this episode we are being introduced for the first time to his mind-power abilities. I never quite understood the reason as a kid but after watching Thundercats older I realized that if Tygra were to be further explored on the storyboards then this series wouldnât be aimed mainly for children of that time. His multifarious personality could be accurately described with the following two examples which outline his general eminent persona and antithetically occult idiosyncrasy. Much to our surprise we hear Lion-o exclaiming in the episode All that Glitters, âIf I do not return, you will be the next Lord of the Thundercatsâ. The majority would expect Panthro who is also the second eldest after Jaga, to be the second in command but Lion-o entrusted Tygraâs integrity and sophisticated manner. His critical stance towards serious situations combined with his earnest behavior marked him competent enough to be Lion-oâs successor. Oppositely, Tygra does have a dark and mysterious side that makes him a very intriguing character, remember Garden of Delights where Silky gives him a narcotic substance-like fruit putting him under a hallucinatory spell and paradoxically instead of denying it or resisting the negative consequences he succumbs to the overwhelming desire implying so an unstable personality prone to malevolent addictions. Both traits are shown off while testing Lion-o and in my opinion this cruel antithesis, as it turned out to be, makes it so special. Likewise, at the previous obstacles Lion-o possibly knew what kind of difficulties each Thundercat had in store but Tygraâs actions and methods werenât anticipated at all. From the outset, where we watch Lion-o meditating alone, we catch a glimpse of something extraordinary that will occur today. On his way to reach first the ancient ruins, past the dessert of sinking sands Lion-o is doubting many times whether he is coming across real things or mere illusions questioning every move that he made building up our tension. Countering the mutants was carried out easily since Tygraâs early exhibit of psychic powers effectively baffled them avoiding so any serious intervention during the trial. Lion-o after being rescued by SnowMeow seemed to come closer to achieve a straight victory and nothing had prepared us for such an epic climax. Tygra looked like as if he always was one step ahead overlooking silently the contestantâs progress, slowly paving the way for an ideal conclusion. However, hardly did Lion-o catch the full meaning of the following worlds prior to the trialâs start âBefore the day is over, you will face your greatest fearâŠâ connoting a certain wizardry and mysticism on Tygraâs eerie talk. Right after Lion-o walks into that strait the ensuing 3 minute turn into a mind bewildering sequence of events where everything is happening under a bewitching atmosphere as we are transferred to another unreal spiritual dimension. The prolonged flute sound playing while Lion-o is floating around the hazy space and the enchanting music theme, supplement to this other-worldly vibe influencing the viewer to a larger extent. Lion-o is compelled to see at first hand in live action the exact moment it took place the exodus scene and foremost the destruction of Thundera, a point in time that caused ceaseless pain as well as remorse on his conscience. Objectively speaking, it must have been really difficult and heart-wrenching for the young leader to feel guilty of not doing something to save his beloved planet as the last lord of the Thundercats but what was even more dreadful is being forced to witness the whole saddening scene bit by bit right in front of his eyes totally unable to act once again. This recurring nightmare was stressed many times before in season 1 and is a trademark factor of Lion-oâs formative years. Conquering the fear and coming up stronger out of this psychological torment indicates his power of will and mental advancement. I need to mention here the most memorable graphical scene when Lion-o is running bravely towards the burning Thundera, as a symbol of surpassing the personal sorrow. The animation then goes black with yellow flashes colliding and returning us back to reality and Lion-oâs victory over Tygra. Who would expect that he would have to suffer this turmoil by a friend and not from his greatest enemy?? Who would expect that Tygra had such a concealed force and decided to strike where it hurts? I thing this part had all the components of an exceptional storytelling avoiding any clichĂ©s and common dialogues; I would love to see when the next Thundercats project is released to have equivalent elements in all aspects. Maybe the only notable weak point of the Thundercats series was the realization of what is to happen beforehand, especially on the episodes revolving around the mutant enemies, making it very predictable. In the trial of Mind-power nothing was predestined and had me at the edge of my seat contemplating every minute it passed. Everything was at stake and the narration wasnât centered solely on Lion-o but examined in equal level the portrayal of another Thunderacat. By far my favorite trial episode and one of the best of both seasons.[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Calibri]âFifth Day-The trial of evilâ[/FONT]
[/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I wonât quite agree with Panthroâs argument on the opening scene that Lion-oâs final trial is the toughest of all. It goes without saying that Mumm-ra in the history of Thundercsats is the deadliest and most formidable enemy possessing the necessary requirements to be the perfect counter match for Lion-o. Lion-o vs Mumm-ra is the ever living embodiment of good vs evil. As long as good exist it is tantamount to manifest also its presence the evil side. Both are interchangeable elements occupying the interest of people and philosophical minds anciently and by the time humanity started to express its multilateral nature. The Greek mythology and a few legendary poets centered their work on the substantial theme of good and evil and widely how they can affect intrinsically a heroic figure or maybe the thin line separating them. Mumm-ra wasnât feasible to die in this episode either. As in all of the masterfully written stories whether they are movies e.g. Star Wars, comics e.g. Batman vs Joker, major works like Sophoclesâ tragedy Oedipus the King, theatrical plays e.g. Shakespeareâs Macbeth or fantasy books e.g. Lord of the Rings the evil side, playing a universal part on the human condition, is a perennial force enduring indefinitely. In our case, the wicked wizard had tried to defeat directly or indirectly the Thundercats dozens of times, at some situations reaching very close, for instance in âSnarf takes up the challengeâ but in the end couldnât eliminate them off the map, the similar happened the other way around of course. Had it not been so well developed and enriched with diverse points, this everlasting battle would have become terribly boring and tedious. At each of the Mumm-ra related episodes the story process is identical: the demon priest and master of arcane and clerical magic would first put in effect his devious plot and Lion-o with his team would defend themselves after the initial attack, beating their chief antagonist and restoring peace. Now that might sound very simple and trite for someone who hasnât been versed in the Thundercats world but taking into consideration examples of great conflicts between good and evil, the way to get the victory with all the trial and tribulations during the crisis is even more interesting from the finale. And that is Thundercats great achievement. The very impressive and intermediate story lavishly unfolding. Mumm-ra by all means is a versatile master of sorcery endowed with an unlimited knowledge and experience of plentiful mystical arts from all corners of the universe as well as a range of power to assume alias forms such as Diamondfly, Gregory Gregion, the Neverwitch, to deceive the opponent in almost any manner he chooses granting him so an assortment of actions every time he prepares to plan his next offensive. He often states âWherever evil exists, Mumm-ra livesâ this plain phrase summarizes the diversity of Mumm-raâs actions while working to accomplish his methodical strategies. Analyzing it further the mummified Mumm-ra resembling a wretched, vile being in his decayed form represents the festering yet powerless but ever existent evil force lurking to find the right time to strengthen its viciousness. Additionally, the whole thing becomes even more challenging when the bad side relying on its slyness and treachery succeeds in deceiving the good side which gullibly avoids the presence of malice and steers clear of wrong doing emanating an air of morality and certainty of the distinction between what is wrong and what it isnât. As we learn in Wildstormâs comic Heroes and Villains Mumm-raâs origin is set in ancient Egypt and he was once Whankh a member of pharaohâs selected council explaining Lion-oâs course to reach the Black pyramid amid the ruins of what appeared to be an old Egyptian civilization. The Boatman with his black blank face reminded me strongly of Charon, the ferryman of Hades who in Greek mythology carried souls of the deceased across the Styx River that divided the living from the world of the dead. This beautiful metaphor and Lion-oâs hazardous navigation through the Doom River was very compelling gripping further our attention of the grand battle to follow and was one of the best portrays in the Thundercats saga. The interesting part wasnât Lion-o and Mumm-ra fighting once again but Lion-o seeking alone totally unarmed to confront his arch rival inside his terrain. The subsequent battle was really nice and Lion-o appeared to be in big trouble, especially by Mumm-raâs energy bolts, Lion-oâs might and wisdom saved him by throwing the sarcophagus, the first time we see that happening and unlike Mumm-raâs second (unconvincing) weakness of withdrawing when seeing his own hideous reflection, I believe it was an appropriate way to finish him temporarily. Finally I donât think anyone expected Mumm-raâs demise or never resurfacing again..What a cool Lion-o king outfit we see at the end! Truly one of a kind, I would wish to have a statue like thatâŠ[/SIZE][/FONT]
I am also late for the poll but the rest of my best 5-part stories ranking goes like this:
Thundercats Ho!
ThunderCabs
Return to Thundera
Mumm-Ra lives!
Three-part series?? i havenât heard of that before. All of the aforementiomed episodes were comprised of 5 parts each one. The only difference is that âLion-oâs Anointment trialsâ original airdate wasnât consecutive following one episode right after the other, for instance"Trial of strenght" (episode 37 of season 1) was officially aired November 12,1985 and the last âtrial of evilâ December 16,1985 (episode 61 of season 1) whereas the rest 5-parts, ThunderCats - Ho! the movie, Mumm-Ra Lives!, first episodes of season 2, ThunderCubs & Return to Thundera were not interrupted by episodes between them.:liono
Hereâs mine:
Lordore, I like your insight on the trials eps.
I must say, until I read it, I always wondered if Lion-o won the trials fair and square and deserved the title of Lord of the TCs. IAgaisnt Panthro, he (Panthro) got hit by a rock, giving Lion-o some advantage.
In the trial of speed, I think Cheetaraâs advantage after 4 miles should have been bigger thatn the rpoducers showed, making it harder for Lion-o to success⊠but that was the idea, right?
Against Tygra, again I felt he recieved an extra help when Tygra warned him about confronting his biggest fear before the day ended (as I saw it, Tygra shouldnât have warned him, because those were the words that Lion-o remembered and helped him come out of the illusion). but I donât think Tygra created that illusion form his darker place, but from an instructive one. But I agree, I also thought of Tygra as the most intriguing and misterious TC.
But you have given me a whole toehr perception about the trials.
Also, I think the trials made him a better leader to his people as he got to understand and appreciate their effort and guidance in his grown-up process. I think it was after the trial of speed that he told them no matter if he won, he would never forget what they did for him and that all he is was because of him. I think he wouldnât have realized that if not for the trials.
One more thing: Lion-oâs displays of immaturity before the trials could also be seen in âPumm-Raâ, not only for his rusd in of judgement about accepting him, but also for his lack of judgement and childish attitude when he excalimed he should be the one entering the Lair because he ahd the sword, neglecting Tygraâs words that he was the most indicated one because he designed it and knew the Lair better.
Also Lordore, I always thought Tygra and his illusion got to get the worst out of Lion-o, either due to the fear, rage, impotence or frustration he felt. In the trial of strenght against Pantrho, Lion-o was very reluctant to fight his friend, but at the end of Tygraâs illusion, Lion-o had no problem in taking him down, straddling over him and twisting his arm back.
I agree with many of your points Tygra_. Even though Lion-o fought against his allies and best friends who were aware of Lion-oâs callowness and probably didnât give 100% of their powers,they didnât exactly made it look like a piece of cake for him neither the trials were a walk in the path. The biggest strain must had been for Lion-o, not to actually try to beat his comrades physically, but mentally. Besides, Lion-o outrun Cheetara not in speed but in stamina, he overpowered Panthro which stands to reason since Lion-o is younger and why-not, stronger and he outwitted the twins in a way he has exploited his cunning abilities over and over again in other episodes. Tygraâs was the best trial out of them all, because as i explained on my previous post, went on an entirely other level, and as you said this is why it was the most intriguing.
The ancient rule of Thundera which dictates that each upcoming Lord should face Thunderians at the trials, didnât exactly entail that his best friends ought to be the adversaries. It was due to the circumstances that Lion-o had to confront his closest pals. If you think of that, it must have been very difficult for the young cub, considering the mixed feelings of love and remorse he had for his destroyed planet and its people, to be forced to battle the only other Thundercats alive. Kind of cruel! Isnât it??!! This is why he said at the begining:âThere is no way i am fighting Panthro, Cheetara, Tygra and the Twinsâ.
Youâre right. I never considered that, for this Lord of the TCs especially, the ones to beat were his best friends⊠maybe for previous ones the noble TCs to defeat werenât that close to him⊠interesting.
Iâd like to know your opinion on the last part of my post, which I bring to this one: âI always thought Tygra and his illusion got to get the worst out of Lion-o, either due to the fear, rage, impotence or frustration he felt. In the trial of strenght against Panthro, Lion-o was very reluctant to fight his friend, but at the end of Tygraâs illusion, Lion-o had no problem in taking him down, straddling over him and twisting his arm back.â
What do you think of that? I really trhink Tygra got Lion-o out of his comfort zone, no more âyouâre my friend and I wonât fight youâ, but more like âwhy did you do this to me?â
Even Tygra told him that it was enough as he had already won. And he was right; I remember many of my friends thinking Tygra surrendered, but in this trial, the goal wasnât to defeat Tygra phisically / in combat, neither to get to the ancient ruins first (ok, that was the manifest goal), but to defeat Tygraâs illssions, telling whatâs true from wehjatâs not (which Tygra told him at the beginning), which Lion-o did.
You are bringing up a very impotant point Tygra_. First of all, sorry for my late reply.
Lion-o underwent an emotional strain while facing Tygra. It was as Tygra warned him:ââyou will face your greatest nightmareââ. There is a certain tragedy following Lion-o throughout the whole Series, he couldnât make piece with the fact that Thundera was destroyed and it wasnât his fault. The guilt feelings was something Lion-O couldnât let go, he blamed himself for not being able to save his planet, his fellow thunderians as well as his father. In addition, Lion-O might have looked grown up on the outside ever since he stepped to Third Earth but on the inside he was still a 12 years boy who was forced to carry the burden of being Lord and be responsible for the future of Thundercats. So in one hand we have Lion-Oâs remorses for for not being actively present on Thunderaâs doom and on the other hand, his early ascension to the throne. It was never easy for him to tackle with these issues. Rememer the recurring nightmares of Thunderians killed on Thundera as he fled to safety with Jaga and the rest, on Thundercats Ho, p.1? So Tygra tapped into both of them in the trial of mind. He managed to make Lion-o live once again, and very vividly his greatest fears. the final scene you mentiononed, i think is a metaphor where Lion-o isnât actually straggling against Tygra but his nightmares. Itâs quite awkward to see him acting in such a frenzy.
However, you might be right implying that Tygra wanted to get the worst out of Lion-O. So let me take this thought one step further and be the devilâs advocate. Tygra was the second in commnd appointed by Lion-O himself but Tygraâs enigmatic charater reveals the jealous part of him in the Keystone episode, itâs the first and only time we listen, so vehemently to a Thundecat member desperately expressing his desire to rise to the throne. Panthro and Cheetara were possesed by evil spirits too but they never reacted in this way. So is it possible that deep down in their thoughts the set of writers, deliberately wanted to outline a character who wasnât so âcleanâ and always good intending as the rest of the team? ans Is this the reason why Tygra and Lion-O are bickering and there is a conflict between them in the New Show???
Mmm⊠not sure about that Lordore. Letâs say I agree 50%
I think if Tygra was jealous of something, it wasnât Lion-oâs condition as the Lord of the TCs. I donât think he ever expressed that wish (am I missing something? He never said âI should be the Lord of the TCsâ or âI want to be the Lord of the TCsâ or anything like that), neither in âCrystal Canyonâ.
Remember also, one of the estatutes of the Code was âhonorâ. Itâs a normal/human thing to feel jealousy and envy, but itâs a honorable thing to realize that and embrace it as part of you and deal with it, not bury it deep inside you. I think all the TCs did good there.
I do think though that he was jealous of the other TCsâ personalities, because he saw it was easy for them to be spontaneous and jovial, while for him it was really hard. He said he was shy since he was a kid, and with the keystone he didnât feel that way anymore; also, he showed some jealousy about Panthro being âMr. Fix-Itâ. As I see it, he wasnât jealous of Lion-oâs condition of power (he even encouraged it a lot), but of the othersâ easy ways which he didnât allow himself to.
For Panthro, for example, I always undertood it. Panthro built the Thundertank, and it was great. Panthro built the Feliner, and it was great. Panthro fixed their weapons every time, and it was great. Tygra, on the other hand, designed the Cats Lair, the Tower of Omens and the other vehicles, he discovered the formula that brought them back to normal size in âWolfratâ, designed their gadgets so they could explore New Thundera better, and we never saw any of the TCs saying âgreat jobâ or âthank youâ, nothing. This could be mere screen time or whatever, and we can assume they appreciated his work out of cameras, but it was never shown, as if they took him for granted or something. I think that increased his insecurity and jealousy.
As for the trial, I do think he intended to get the worst out of Lion-o, not out of jealousy, but because he considered a true leader should be able to aknowledge his dark side (fear, rage, guilt, sorrow) and control it so it wonât control him. I think Tygra was going after that, and that the trial was about it. It was no coincidence it was the last one before the trial of evil: Lion-o should know and control his dark side to be in capacity to confront and defeat the dark side outside him (Mumm-Ra). I always thought Tygra always saw and knew things the others oversaw; for them, the trials were for Lion-o to show he can beat obstacles, for Tygra it was to prepare Lion-o for his future role and destiny. He knew Lion-o should be able to do that. Remember it was him (Tygra) who said in the beginning of the first trial: âIf Lion-o fails, then we all would have failedâ (or something like that); that showed me that, for Tygra, the trials were much more than mere competences.