'WTF' moments in Thundercats eps.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

Yes, I noticed that, Cracker only turned up in Overgard’s episodes.

Interesting indeed about no real follow-up with Shiner. He was one of the most interesting guest characters the show had - his reappearance in Thundercats Ho! was a tragic misuse of his character. In his first appearance he had that moral ambiguity of being a mercenary willing to do evil things for money, but not evil at heart. When he came back, he was just a straight villain.

Shiner was such a great villain.
I really must have a watch of ‘‘The Book of Omens’’ again. You should maybe read that awful Wildstorm comic Thundercats The Return and see how things went after…terrible storyline.

[Daremonger]

@Mark M

Shiner was such a great villain.
I really must have a watch of ‘‘The Book of Omens’’ again. You should maybe read that awful Wildstorm comic Thundercats The Return and see how things went after…terrible storyline.

Overgard’s Mandora character appeared in “Return to Thundera!” Part IV and “The Zaxx Factor,” episodes that Overgard never wrote. The episodes that Hachiman appeared in but Overgard also never wrote were “ThunderCats, Ho!” Parts IV and V, and “Hachiman’s Honor.” Mumm-Ra disguises himself as another Overgard character, Dr. Dometone, in “Fond Memories.”

[LiamABC]

Ironically, it’s in those season 4 episodes where Mandora just becomes a walking cliche. In her season 1 appearances, she’s interesting, but by the end of the series, she’s barely even two-dimensional. OK, she’s getting that way in “Sideswipe”, but not as bad by any means.

[ButterflyBoy]

I’ve read the Wildstorm comics a few times. Sigh…such wasted potential.

[LiamABC]

Having just done a check on the writing credits, here’s the stats for most episodes:

1. Leonard Starr - 23 episodes (including the first four and three other five-parters)
2. Peter Lawrence - 21 episodes (including the last two five-parters)
3. William Overgard - 14 episodes

4= Stephen Perry, Bob Haney, Chris Trengove - 7 episodes each
7= Kimberly Morris, J. Larry Carroll, Bill Ratter - 6 episodes each

So Overgard contributed at least twice as many episodes as any other writer - apart from Starr and Lawrence, but if you count the multi-part episodes as single stories, then Lawrence only wrote 13, and Starr only 8. Meaning Overgard still contributed the most individual storylines of any writer.

[Daremonger]

@LiamABC

Having just done a check on the writing credits, here’s the stats for most episodes:

1. Leonard Starr - 23 episodes (including the first four and three other five-parters)
2. Peter Lawrence - 21 episodes (including the last two five-parters)
3. William Overgard - 14 episodes

4= Stephen Perry, Bob Haney, Chris Trengove - 7 episodes each
7= Kimberly Morris, J. Larry Carroll, Bill Ratter - 6 episodes each

So Overgard contributed at least twice as many episodes as any other writer - apart from Starr and Lawrence, but if you count the multi-part episodes as single stories, then Lawrence only wrote 13, and Starr only 8. Meaning Overgard still contributed the most individual storylines of any writer.

Intriguing.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

Having just done a check on the writing credits, here’s the stats for most episodes:

1. Leonard Starr - 23 episodes (including the first four and three other five-parters)
2. Peter Lawrence - 21 episodes (including the last two five-parters)
3. William Overgard - 14 episodes

4= Stephen Perry, Bob Haney, Chris Trengove - 7 episodes each
7= Kimberly Morris, J. Larry Carroll, Bill Ratter - 6 episodes each

So Overgard contributed at least twice as many episodes as any other writer - apart from Starr and Lawrence, but if you count the multi-part episodes as single stories, then Lawrence only wrote 13, and Starr only 8. Meaning Overgard still contributed the most individual storylines of any writer.

I think it really is a matter of quality over quantity.

[LiamABC]

@Mark M

I think it really is a matter of quality over quantity.

True enough - I wasn’t making any comment about the quality here, I was simply presenting the writing stats. Unquestionably, Leonard Starr wrote the most important episodes. The show would be nothing without Starr’s contribution. Lawrence’s more important episodes were not so great - he didn’t have the same oomph when handling the five-parters.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

True enough - I wasn’t making any comment about the quality here, I was simply presenting the writing stats. Unquestionably, Leonard Starr wrote the most important episodes. The show would be nothing without Starr’s contribution. Lawrence’s more important episodes were not so great - he didn’t have the same oomph when handling the five-parters.

I know what you meant. I just meant it would have been better if Starr or Lawrence or another writer had got more episodes made instead of so many of Overgards.

[Daremonger]

@Mark M

I know what you meant. I just meant it would have been better if Starr or Lawrence or another writer had got more episodes made instead of so many of Overgards.

There were writers on the show who only wrote one episode, such as Jeri Craden, Danny Peary, and Kenneth E. Vose.

[LiamABC]

I know what you’re saying, and I agree. Here’s the full writing stats:

http://thundercats.org/cartoons-and-movies/original-series/articles-features/about-the-writers/

Not only was Leonard Starr absent from the later series after Mumm-Ra Lives, so too were Stephen Perry and Bob Haney. No wonder the show was so lacking in the later series.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

I know what you’re saying, and I agree. Here’s the full writing stats:

http://thundercats.org/cartoons-and-movies/original-series/articles-features/about-the-writers/

Not only was Leonard Starr absent from the later series after Mumm-Ra Lives, so too were Stephen Perry and Bob Haney. No wonder the show was so lacking in the later series.

Interesting indeed. Some surprises there. Peter Lawrence wrote ‘Chain of Loyalty’…He did write some good episodes, with the exception of his two 5 part bock of episodes.
Starr’s list is so good until ‘Mumm-Ra Lives’
Haney, Perry and Trengove wrote several good episodes.
Aside from ‘The Last Day’ I am not to familiar with J. Larry Carroll’s episodes. Really good episode.
Regardless of Lawrence and Starr’s opinions I liked Bass’ episodes.

[LiamABC]

@Mark M

Interesting indeed. Some surprises there. Peter Lawrence wrote ‘Chain of Loyalty’…He did write some good episodes, with the exception of his two 5 part bock of episodes.
Starr’s list is so good until ‘Mumm-Ra Lives’
Haney, Perry and Trengove wrote several good episodes.
Aside from ‘The Last Day’ I am not to familiar with J. Larry Carroll’s episodes. Really good episode.
Regardless of Lawrence and Starr’s opinions I liked Bass’ episodes.

I have always maintained that the initial establishing story arc goes all the way up to “Pumm-Ra” - or in other words, the first six episodes. Jules Bass wrote the last two of those, and his other two episodes are all right too.

J. Larry Carroll didn’t write anything in season 1. Same goes for Bill Ratter (who co-wrote “Chain Of Loyalty”). And Kimberly Morris only wrote one season 1 episode, “The Trouble With Thunderkittens”.

So there was definitely a significant overhaul in the writing staff for season 2. Starr, Haney and Perry were out, Morris, Ratter and Carroll were in.

Or, to put it another way, easy though it is to blame Overgard for the show’s decline, he’s not solely responsible by any means.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

I have always maintained that the initial establishing story arc goes all the way up to “Pumm-Ra” - or in other words, the first six episodes. Jules Bass wrote the last two of those, and his other two episodes are all right too.

J. Larry Carroll didn’t write anything in season 1. Same goes for Bill Ratter (who co-wrote “Chain Of Loyalty”). And Kimberly Morris only wrote one season 1 episode, “The Trouble With Thunderkittens”.

So there was definitely a significant overhaul in the writing staff for season 2. Starr, Haney and Perry were out, Morris, Ratter and Carroll were in.

Or, to put it another way, easy though it is to blame Overgard for the show’s decline, he’s not solely responsible by any means.

Oh no far from it, it was a collective problem that caused the shows decline. It makes me wonder though that for season two onwards those were the best scripts that Lawrence selected.

[Daremonger]

@Mark M

Oh no far from it, it was a collective problem that caused the shows decline. It makes me wonder though that for season two onwards those were the best scripts that Lawrence selected.

The Star of Thundera is a deus ex machina in “ThunderCats, Ho!” Part V that just shows up outta nowhere, with no origin for it.

[LiamABC]

@Daremonger

The Star of Thundera is a deus ex machina in “ThunderCats, Ho!” Part V that just shows up outta nowhere, with no origin for it.

There should have been some mention of it in the earlier parts, preferably right at the beginning of the movie. There was certainly scope for it.

[Mark_M]

@LiamABC

There should have been some mention of it in the earlier parts, preferably right at the beginning of the movie. There was certainly scope for it.

@Daremonger

The Star of Thundera is a deus ex machina in “ThunderCats, Ho!” Part V that just shows up outta nowhere, with no origin for it.

But if they had mentioned it at the beginning we would have known it was going to come into play at some point in the 5 parts/movie. Granted they could maybe have made a slight reference to it in part one or even in an earlier episode, but I liked the way Jaga brought it to Lion-O’s attention. It was kind of in a space/astral plane so no one other than a spirit knowing about it wouldn’t really have made much sense.
Regardless though I thought that scene with Grune showing up was excellent, a good fight scene, beautiful animation and backgrounds and great music for the scene.

[ButterflyBoy]

While I agree the show would have definitely not been the same without Leonard Starr’s contributions, I also recognize that his writing was far from perfect. As I previously mentioned, Lion-O’s sudden decision to head to Fire Rock Mountain in “Thundercats Ho!” is a huge plothole that ruins an otherwise enjoyable “movie”. And I would put “Mumm-Ra Lives!” below “Thundercubs!” and “Return to Thundera!” in terms of writing quality, honestly.

Now I am totally with ya’ll on the series’ overall decline following season 1, in many ways the pacing makes it feel like a different show altogether. I also think it ended at the right time - it was still watchable and had quality to it, in my opinion, but was knocking on the door of being mediocre.

[Mark_M]

@ButterflyBoy

While I agree the show would have definitely not been the same without Leonard Starr’s contributions, I also recognize that his writing was far from perfect. As I previously mentioned, Lion-O’s sudden decision to head to Fire Rock Mountain in “Thundercats Ho!” is a huge plothole that ruins an otherwise enjoyable “movie”. And I would put “Mumm-Ra Lives!” below “Thundercubs!” and “Return to Thundera!” in terms of writing quality, honestly.

Now I am totally with ya’ll on the series’ overall decline following season 1, in many ways the pacing makes it feel like a different show altogether. I also think it ended at the right time - it was still watchable and had quality to it, in my opinion, but was knocking on the door of being mediocre.

I agree it ended at the right time, but I think if the season one writers had returned and been given more creative freedom I think they could have had another one or two seasons of far better quality like the first season.

[LiamABC]

Having watched Thundercubs yesterday, I think it’s a bit stretched as a 5-parter. 3 parts would have been sufficient. Although no parts would have been better, as it’s really where the whole concept of the show turned dodgy.