State of the Site - An Open Discussion

It was definitely a bit frustrating and disappointing for me not being able to contribute as much as I want to. A lot of other factors led to my decision as well, including some things I’d prefer not to discuss and just let it be.


If I can make a suggestion: I don’t think we really need a person with the title Site Leader. Since we make decisions based on what the majority of the team prefers, I think we can all take a bit of the leadership position. If we all help each other out when it comes to HTML, uploading, and whatnot, I think the site will be fine without an actual person with the title Site Leader.

To be honest, I really didn’t have the power to accept or deny anything solely on my decision. When I did think I had the power to do so, I was incorrect (see the podcast fiasco).

If anything, we could at least attempt this direction and if it doesn’t work out, then we can figure out who can take that role.

That’s actually not a bad idea - and something I thought about. We just need someone to be an ‘uploader’ of sorts - update the website, put up new content. As long as they’re regular, we can be a ‘committee’ of sorts and make decisions based on majority. Sounds reasonable to me.

Chris here…

Well, without wanting to rake over old ground, as far as the podcast issue is concerned, my problem was not with you taking a decision on your own authority as much as the decision that you took - bringing someone onto our podcast who you know the team has a lot of history and ill-feelings about, without even telling us that you were doing it (and indeed, IIRC you did concede that you had deliberately not mentioned it, because of who it was). If it had been some random forum member (e.g. FrameTygra, or someone like that), I couldn’t have cared less. But, that’s in the past now… :slight_smile:

The way we work together these days, I actually think there’s a lot of merit in not having a proper Site Leader, and just helping each other out and chatting and taking decisions together - now that there are Section Managers in place, to be honest it makes it pretty easy to do that, and indeed when you took a brief break from the site back in summer 2006, that’s pretty much what it was like and it wasn’t too bad. That said, I still think (podcast issue aside) you have been a great leader, and in that respect as well I think perhaps it would be best to try a spell without a proper Site Leader, just because I think it would be a nightmare for someone to try and fill your shoes! :smiley:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Personally I think that a site like this needs to have a place where the buck stops. I’m fine with trying this for a while without a site leader but you can’t leave everything to a group vote. My main argument for why? Because it takes somebody motivated and in charge to move a team along. A team needs someone to rally around. Without that you get a lack of forward moving energy and people won’t work towards common goals.

For the most part we can look after our own sections, I agree with that. But when it comes to pushing the site to the next level we won’t be able to do everything by consensus. Sometimes we’ll need someone to kick our butts so that stuff gets done, and sometimes we’ll need a decision to be made on the team’s behalf.

We’ll also from time to time need a site spokesperson and its easier for the world at large to have one person to deal with.

Like I said, I’ll try this ‘no leader’ idea if thats really what everybody wants. But as a Project Manager in my real life I’ve seen what happens when people try to work on consensus only. And there’s a big difference between the two models.

Manny I’ve tried to get a hold of you by e-mail, PM and Skype cause I wanted to offer myself up for a chat if you’d like. Your messages here in this thread leave me feeling sad about how little value you seem to think you’ve added in your time as our leader here. You’ve been your own harshest critic about this and I just wanted you to know that we’ve all appreciated everything you’ve done here. You are more of a leader than you give yourself credit for and I hope that with time you’ll be able to see that too.

Guys it has been too long since we all came together online to talk as a team. I know many of you have a lot to take care of in real life but I think we need 30 -60 minutes together to pump ourselves up a bit and decide what is next for the site. Could I suggest that we try to meet on Sat or Sun this weekend at 2PM EST (7PM Greenwich)? How does that sound?

Cheers
Mark

Chris here…

I agree 100% with everything you say here, Mark, I think your comments are very wise. I’d be happy to take part in any sort of team chat - the biggest comment I’d make is that unfortunately I have gigs on both Saturday and Sunday evening, so my involvement would be dependant on when 2pm EST would be in UK time (forgive me, my brain’s really fuzzy tonight after a long rehearsal this afternoon)… :slight_smile:

Alternatively, at the present time I am free on Sunday 5th October if that’s any help? :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

I’m very much up for a group chat. Sunday.. I’m doing the Meskimen interview and Saturday, I have an interview for a student radio interview.

But I’m doing the interview late on Sunday so Sunday’s better for me.

Chris here…

So in other words it’s 12:00 in the afternoon, UK time? If so, I might be able to make it for a while - it would certainly be a good thing IMO! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Hang on.. no, that’s wrong. If it’s EST - Eastern Standard Time - and we’re comparing it to UK time, it’s 5-hours behind. I think the website I was on meant a different time.

So if he wants it 2pm EST, that would be 7PM UK. That makes sense. Mark had it right - I had one of those ‘stupid moments’.. don’t know why because I use EST all the time because of these interviews I conduct. My bad.

Unfortunately, I work Saturdays and Sundays. I usually get home about 10pm on Sundays.. and I have uni work that needs doing. Don’t let me stop the meeting though..

Sorry

Chris here…

Ah, OK - in that case, unfortunately, I have gigs on both Saturday & Sunday night, which means I shall be out from 5:30pm - midnight on Saturday, and 7:00pm - midnight on Sunday. Sorry! :frowning:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Hi everybody,

I’m writing my longest post ever here, but its an important one so please forgive the length. I want to write about what Manny has posted here, and what Manny and I have talked about at some length. Specifically I’m going to talk about management of the site and because it impacts us all I want to keep talking about this until we’re all comfortable about a way to move forward on the site.

Most important of all I want to make sure we all agree on what Manny and I are proposing to the team. So over the next week or so its important that you read, think about what is proposed and that we come to a shared understanding of how we’ll move forward as a team. Comments and questions are welcome but lets make sure to talk as a team on a live meeting soon too.

What I want to discuss is the leadership of the site. As you all know by now Manny has stepped down from the leadership role that we kind of thrust upon him. I’m sure you felt like I did when you read his post, that this was a sad day in the site’s history. After all, over the last 3.5 years we’ve grown as a site in large part due to Manny’s leadership and site expertise. Like me I’m sure you wondered aloud as to what we’ll become given Manny’s decision. What would happen to the site and our growth without him at the helm?

Today I spent most of the afternoon talking to Manny on Skype about what led to his decision and what would need to change in order for him to change his mind. I’m happy to report that Manny and I have come up with what we think will be the best possible solution on site leadership.

But this site belongs to all of us and so Manny and I want to share these ideas with you before we put them into action. We want to make sure that if we need to adjust this that everybody has a chance to weigh in. Afterall we’re at a critical juncture in the site and the decisions we make now will affect the site for years to come.

As you know Manny has been considering stepping down as Site Leader. We’ve asked a lot of Manny and this pressure has been a heavy weight for him to bear for a very long time. I’m proud of how well he’s stood up under that weight. But the time has come for Manny to have some help.

And that’s where I come in with this post. I’ve offered to help Manny in the hopes that he’ll stay in a leadership role on the site. In the hopes that we can continue on as we have… with determination to make this site better than great. To keep us at the top of ThunderCat fandom. To redesign the site, to build a strong response to the upcoming movie and to be the most visited ThunderCats site on the net.

I’ve offered to help Manny by stepping up to share the leadership role with him as co-Site Leader. We’ve talked about sharing the role so that its not a huge weight on any one single person. As a team Manny and I believe its important that we have co-ordination and I think the team would agree that this is better than just working independently.

We haven’t thought through all the details but essentially we would divide the role into two parts. Manny would continue slowly behind the scenes on the ongoing redesign though this will remain fairly inactive for now. His main focus will be building out a new section for the movie. Manny will continue to be our overall “guy in charge” for any mission critical issues on the site.

The second part which I’ll look after is day to day team co-ordination. Things like arranging team meetings, helping organize our thinking and team decision making. If issues are popping up on the day to day work of the site I’ll try to help out. Basically I’ll be the co-ordinator for the team. By taking over this part of the role from Manny he’s able to stay on as co-leader while he continues to work on the parts of the site that he enjoys the most.

For my own part I intend to talk to Manny frequently while co-ordinating team work so that any major work we’re undertaking involves him also. I don’t intend to change anything, I think the site is doing great and that my role will mostly take the form of reminders to everybody about deadlines for when we want to make updates to the site and other administrative follow up stuff.

My motivation for wanting to take this role is because I want to keep Manny as involved as possible and this was the best solution we could think of that kept him involved as site leader. I also tend to have the most available time out of the team members so I can afford to lend a greater hand than before. I know that many of the team members wouldn’t pick me first out of the team to take a leadership role. I’ve posted some pretty outlandish stuff before in the forums about buying the site and so on. Rest assured that I know better now, I know that this is a team run site first and foremost and I respect that greatly. I want to do this work in the best interests of the team and the site and I’m available to talk to you if you have concerns or questions about what Manny and I are proposing here.

We can also discuss this together when we’re able to arrange a team meeting. It doesn’t look like this week works but I’ll try to speak with you each individually to figure out everyone’s availability and we’ll organize something soon.

Thanks for reading through this essay length post, please think about what is posted here and please speak with Manny and I with your reactions.

Chris here…

OK, first of all can I say I’m a bit pushed for time here as am getting rid for a gig tonight, but just wanted to post up a couple of instant reactions…

First of all, Mark, I think on paper this sounds like a great move. I say this based on a couple of thoughts, firstly that, like yourself, I would like to see MannyF remain involved as much as possible and, the one recent glitch about the podcast issue + a recent element of communication breakdown (which I think is a bit of a team-wide problem, not exclusive to any one person) notwithstanding, I agree 100% with all of your comments. The other reason why I think this is a good move is because of your own experiences as a Project Manager. The third reason why I think you would be a good choice for a role like this is because you always post clear, articulate and well thought-out posts and put forward ideas in the same vein - we don’t always agree, and in our time we’ve had our differences, but, I for one always appreciate your comments and insight and have a great deal of respect for the qualities you bring to the team. :slight_smile:

Negative comments? Well, they’re kind-of tough to sugar-coat so I hope you’ll forgive me being blunt because I promise I’m not trying to cause offence - but, my one criteria for anyone whose leading a project like this site is that they need to be able to step back and be objective. By that I mean, they need to be able to make decisions and call shots, even if those decisions are actually not in their own interests. One of the things I feel has been good about MannyF’s role as Site Leader is that he is not the head of a section, therefore he has no “vested interest” in any one area of the site. :slight_smile:

In the past, Mark, the biggest areas that you & I have clashed over have been to do with issues to do with the Animation Art Section - wanting it given its own separate updates from the Cartoon Section even when I (and MannyF) have disagreed, you wanting it to be a section in its own right when all of the rest of the team believed that the logical and natural place for it was within the Cartoon Section, etc., etc. I mention these things not to rake over old issues - as far as I’m concerned all of those are issues that have been and gone. :slight_smile: But, if I put my hand on my heart, that would be my concern - that if you personally were to take on the role of co-Site Leader (which, in every other respect I think you would be ideally suited for) that you wouldn’t try and even subconciously use that role to further your own interests in the site if it was something that the rest of the team had differing/strong views about. :slight_smile:

Again, I very much hope you’re not offended by me mentioning this - I promise I’m not bringing all this up just to be an asshole, but because you’ve invited an open and candid discussion about what would be a big change for this site, and so felt it best to lay my cards on the table. :slight_smile:

I very much hope we are able to make something work here, as I think it would be good for the site’s future to have some of these lingering issues resolved so that we can move on and help make this site even bigger and better than it already is! :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Chris, I am fine, and have been fine for some time with the animation art being a subsection in the cartoon section. I don’t think I’ve pushed any agenda to do with that for some time. I promise to leave this alone as I have already for some time. Don’t think I can promise not ‘subconsciously’ promote my section :wink: but I wouldn’t use my heightened involvement with the site to try and elevate the animation art. I am glad that this would be your greatest concern because its already ancient history for me.

Thanks for raising it though, I’m sure if it is a lingering concern for you then it probably is for others as well but I think that my animation art stuff is just fine where it is.

Cheers,
Mark

I’m really glad Manny’s staying on and I don’t mind someone else helping him out and being a ‘Co-Leader’ - don’t really know Mark but he seems cool. That’s all fine with me - but I think as long as we start uploading new content to the website and updating the front page.. and we do that on a once-a-month basis or whenever new content comes on here, I’d be a very happy Nick. :slight_smile:

Right now guys I am in a whole lot of pain and kind of out of it. Yesterday I went through a rather extensive surgery (liposuction to be exact) and I am totally out of commission for the next few weeks while I recouperate. I say it once and I say it again that Manny was great as a site leader and still is, he has brought so much more than many of us can think about. My role as a toy section co-manager and forum admin has been rather decreased and almost non-existant but nonetheless I do enjoy my job in the forums and whenevr time permits I like to add new things to it.

As it stands now Im having a very difficult time going through the thread and following the discussion but when Im more into it (wihtout some drugs in my system) Ill answer in more details.

Get well, MannyC. I don’t know you very well but I’m glad to hear your operation was a success and you just need recuperating - please don’t concern yourself with any ThunderCats stuff and just look after yourself. Stay healthy. :slight_smile:

First of all, I really appreciate Mark chatting with me the other day and understanding where I’m been coming from. I know I should have responded earlier, but wasn’t sure what to say exactly.

That said, what Mark wrote is pretty much spot on with what we discussed on Friday and if it is okay with the team, I’d be willing to commit to the idea that was proposed.

I know this back and forth about the site director might be annoying to a lot of people, but I do believe that changes had to be made and thought that the best way to spark motivation was for me to give way for someone else. However, I’m open to giving the idea that Mark posted a chance so long as it’s okay with the team.

I definitely would like to have a team meeting about this as well as other issues regarding the site. It’d be nice to speak with everyone again too! It’s been a while. :slight_smile:

First of all, thanks Mark for the PM about this thread. I haven’t been ignoring… I have just had the busiest week of my life to date. Just about managing to squeeze 4 hours of sleep per day in amongst working at apple and hella uni work.

Anyway, normal service resumed for me now.

As per usual, the team have already landed upon a good solution to the problems in hand. Non of us want to see Manny step down from a role he has done so well for so long. I think Manny has the potential to do some amazing work on a 'Movie Section, and if Mark helping out with team duties will help this along, then I think we should proceed with it.

I can see a meeting being beneficial.. even just to come together as a team and catch up.

Weekends are never that great for me (only Saturday evening) any other time I will have to let you know about :slight_smile:

Re-design wise, I am slightly disappointed this has been put on hold, as I was quite excited about refreshing the encyclopedia along side it. But I guess this is something we can discuss at the meeting.

Thats all for now :slight_smile:

Chris here…

Hey gang, just taking a moment out of my hectic life to revive this elderly thread because (if I’m honest) I think it’s probably worth doing… :slight_smile:

To be honest, these days now I would say that the site is about 90% dead. Almost every major issue to do with the site is now hanging in the air, the only thing that’s moving forward is Nick’s interviews (and even those have stalled a little, mostly down to me) - now, I’m definitely not pointing the finger at anybody because real life gets in the way (more on this in a moment), but, does anybody else feel this way? :slight_smile:

For myself personally, I’m still busy with the music, plus various elements in my personal life (both good and bad) and, truthfully, ThunderCats Lair just gets pushed to the bottom of the pile. :frowning: I’m sure that’s true of a lot of the team…

Now, this happens to a lot of online fan projects - people start them up full of enthusiasm and then “real life” gets in the way, which is what seems to have happened here. In some cases, sites just die off and stay online as a finished article, even if they’re incomplete - larger sites (like He-Man.Org) change ownership - hence in that case, Adam Tyner & Matt Ratzloff (the guys who started www.he-man.org) are nowhere to be seen, and instead its now run by Emiliano Santalucia (whose only real connection to it previously was as the artist who worked on the MOTU comics) and Val Staples (the least I say about him the better). But I digress…

Honestly, I think as part of discussing openly the future of this site, we should consider whether it’s worth trying to inject new blood into completing some of the things we’ve started. Now, I’m categorically not suggesting that any of us on the team should relinquish control of the site because I don’t think any of us could bring ourselves to do that - but, I do think it’s worth having a frank look at what aspects we think we realistically stand a chance of working on anytime soon, and if necessary, think about what could be delegated. :slight_smile:

Martin’s resigned, and Matt is a long-time MIA and to be honest I think you could consider his involvement in this site a thing of the past (very sadly), despite the fact that he compiled massive amounts of content that were never added to the site due to not having enough folks to do HTML. The rest of us are (to a greater or lesser extent) too busy to contribute to the site on a regular basis. So, I think this is a good moment to consider what aspects of the site could be delegated to others who may be able to bring fresh enthusiasm to this site in the way that Nick has with his interviews. :slight_smile:

I very much hope that no one is offended by my dragging this back up - if I’m honest, I just feel that unless we want to slide into being just another dead ThunderCats site (which is a bit of a climb-down for a site that has worked so hard to get up there with the big two of Angie’s site and EOT - I think we’ve turned the “big two” into a “big three”), we need to look at this sooner rather than later. :slight_smile:

Take care… :slight_smile:

Chris, I’ve been thinking about writing a similar post to the one you have below. I wanted to wait for others to chip in first but as its now the second day since you wrote this, well I guess I’ll jump in…

I think we should give serious consideration to asking some new blood to step in and help us with the site. I’ve written a few of the less active team members asking if they’d be comfortable with this and unfortunately I haven’t heard back from them on this question.

I want to suggest that we ask for some user submitted content for the sections and then find a way to get it cranked into html and upload it to the site. In one or two cases we may need to ask current team members to step down and let us find a replacement. I hope it doesn’t have to come to that because I love this team and my preference would be that we call work just a touch harder on the site and keep it going. But if people just can’t make that commitment this year then I think we owe it to the site and the community to find people who can.

I don’t exclude myself from this, as its been FOREVER since I’ve uploaded a new cel to my gallery, and its been over two months since my story on Mike Germakian. But I’m committed to doing work on my section this year and I’m hopeful that the rest of the team can also.

I didn’t realize that Matt had created some content that we haven’t been able to post yet. Is this for the merchandise section?