I think you’re mixing up “Sixth Sense” with “The Ghost Warrior” - which introduces her sixth sense, then known only by Tygra and Panthro.
As for the Annointment Trials, I agree that they sort of belong roughly mid-season - but let’s wait until we’ve sorted out bigger continuity chains for both before and after until we give them a precise placing - they may have to end up as 28-32, or 34-38.
It’s quite true too that there’s no direct surprise at seeing Mumm-Ra again after the Trial of Evil - the same is also true of “The Evil Harp Of Char-Nin” which is actually an episode that has no specific continuity points that I can tell, so can be stored for when we need a “non-Mutant filler” - as in episodes when we need a break between the Mutants’ doings, for example before “The Mountain”.
The closest we might get to that sort of reaction would be a realisation that something has to be Mumm-Ra - like “The Mumm-Ra Berbil”. Tygra concludes that the Berbil must be Mumm-Ra, so that could be useful in this context.
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The “additional Mutant extras” are only in about four or five random episodes, and I suspect is a plot point that we may have to turn a blind eye to.
The point about “The Ghost Warrior” and “Lord Of The Snows” is interesting, and could fit, but your comments about “Safari Joe” and “The Fireballs Of Plun-Darr” don’t. In JS, Mule says Tygra can’t swim except when invisible, whereas in TFOP, Tygra turns invisible to swim, but can still swim when he becomes visible.
This is now going to require some even more careful thinking. Perhaps we need to bring in another episode where the skycutters and nosediver get damaged to precede LOTS.
As for “Return To Thundera” re “The Time Capsule” - obviously it does come after it, but it doesn’t have to be straight after. Either Tygra or Panthro says that the capsule may need repairing before it can be viewed, we can say that it took longer than they expected (especially as they kept getting called away to fight the mutants!).
I had thought than when Tygra lost his whip in “Fireballs” he was already trapped in that cage, unable to swim anywhere. Watching it back now, I realize my mistake: he does swim around a little bit inside the cage. Sorry about that. My impression of Mule’s line was that it was written purposely to allow for the swimming we see in “Fireballs”—looks like Stephen Perry didn’t have the chance to watch the finished episode!
And watching back the end of “The Time Capsule”, you’re also right—Tygra does mention the possibility of damage. Moreover, Lion-O expresses a willingness to wait.
No it can’t. I’ve just remembered why - “Lord Of The Snows” has to come after “The Fireballs Of Plun-Darr” and “Return To Thundera”, because those two episodes feature MAJOR MUTANT TECHNOLOGICAL ACTIVITY BUT NO VULTUREMAN - if he had joined them at this point in the series, he would have been co-ordinating the tech here, as he is the inventor of the group.
The lack of thundrillium in “Lord Of The Snows” can instead be put down to the attack by the Warbot in “Return To Thundera” - I think we can safely say they used up a lot of thundrillium defending and subsequently repairing the Lair in that episode. With only “The Thunder-Cutter” coming between them, my original first 21 still holds up:
Exodus
The Unholy Alliance
Berbils
The Slaves Of Castle Plun-Darr
Trouble With Time
Pumm-Ra
The Terror Of Hammerhand
The Tower Of Traps (explains Tygra and the Kittens absence from previous ep)
The Garden Of Delights (Mutants still without technology)
Spitting Image (a Thundercat gone bad is unheard of in this episode)
The Doom-Gaze (Mutants still untechnologised)
The Ghost Warrior (has to come after Spitting Image for above reason)
The Spaceship Beneath The Sands (introduces Mutant tech)
The Time Capsule (introduces spaceboards)
Safari Joe (Tygra can’t swim)
The Fireballs Of Plun-Darr (Tygra swimming; tech without Vultureman)
Mandora: The Evil Chaser (need a Mutantless episode here so they can rebuild castle Plun-Darr)
Return To Thundera (time capsule seen again, Castle Plun-Darr has been rebuilt, more tech without Vultureman)
The Thunder-Cutter (Monkian’s comments about the Sword’s power follow on naturally; Warrior Maidens)
Lord Of The Snows (lack of power can be put down to the Warbot’s attack)
All The Glitters (processing the thundrillium meteor)
And I’m going with the suggestion of:
Snarf Takes Up The Challenge (still the “wrong” voice for Vultureman)
And yes, “Mandora And The Pirates” and “Dr Dometone” definitely belong somewhere soon after, in that order but preferably not next to each other - and both before the Annointment Trials. I’d actually be inclined to put “Dr Dometone” as the last one before the Annointment Trials if no-one else can think of anything that definitely belongs after it but before the Trials.
Also regarding other continuity points, I’d be inclined to put “Jackalman’s Rebellion” right after “The Rock Giant”, either immediately or with one Mutantless episode in between - because of Jackalman’s embarrassing predicament in TRG, the other Mutants must have seen him in that position, either by going out to look for him or him making it back to Castle Plun-Darr like that - and they would certainly have laughed at him, which could well have made him mad enough to try it alone. Similarly, “The Super-Power Potion” should probably come after “Out Of Sight” because of Vultureman’s comments in OOS about how his day will come - it does in TSPP.
ONE FURTHER POINT - it’s already clear that there are some pairs of episodes that need breaks, in which episodes occur that don’t have the Mutants. These Mutantless episodes usually have little in the way of major continuity ties, and these tend only to be in the form of “this must follow an episode that it’s already going to be following anyway” - so they should be saved for thr express purpose of plugging those gaps. Such episodes include (but are not limited to):
Mongor
The Evil Harp Of Char-Nin
The Crystal Queen
The Secret Of The Ice King
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“Turmagar The Tuska” comes somewhere between “The Time Capsule” (Black Widow Shark) and “Feliner” (because they’re not flying to their aid). If there’s no Tuskas at the coronation, then there’s a case for putting it after the Trials. On the other hand, if you feel Tygra’s inactivity in the water is definitely from an inability to swim, as opposed to the effects of the trance and/or the fall, then it would belong before “The Fireballs Of Plun-Darr” - but that means it goes either immediately before or immediately after “Safari Joe”, which makes three consecutive episodes concerning Tygra’s aquatic prowess (or lack of same). So I’d say put Turmagar a bit later.
“Return Of The Driller” must also come before “Feliner”, because if it came after, then surely it would be quicker (and safer!) for them to fly to the sponge-fog. They might have still needed the tank to plug it into the hole, but that’s easily done.
IF “ANNOINTMENT” IS GOING IN THE MIDDLE WE JUST NEED SIX MORE EPISODES TO DEFINITELY GO BEFORE IT.
“Sixth Sense” is a candidate, because they don’t have the Feliner to retrieve the alien craft from space (in which case, leave the other Cheetara spotlight episode, “Dimension Doom” until later).
Similarly, episodes featuring the Kittens - “Mongor” has no major continuity points save the spaceboards placing if after “The Time Capsule”, where it’s always been anyway. Because their other major episodes, “Trapped” and “The Trouble With Thunderkittens” both feature the Feliner and must come later, keeping “Mongor” before the trials would balance the series more.
Another good candidate would be “The Wolfrat” - if “The Mumm-Ra Berbil” (which features a flashback of this episode) is to be taken as the closest thing to a realisation that Mumm-Ra is still with us, and therefore the immediate follow-up to the Annointment Trials, then “The Wolfrat” would have to come before.
Thanks. If we can at least get a definitive first half, then that’s something.
Another thought I had a while ago and kept forgetting to mention. I feel “Excalibur” belongs before the annointment trials rather than after, because of Lion-O’s saying about how much he still has a long way to go (or a lot to learn, or something like that).
If “Excalibur” comes before the trials, then so by extension does “The Astral Prison”, a sequence from which episode is featured in flashback in “Excalibur”. Worth mentioning too that “The Astral Prison” introduces the Mutants’ thundranium cannon, so it must precede any other episode that features it (such as “Tight Squeeze”).
I get the feeling that whichever remaining episodes we do settle on as being definitely before the trials, will probably be arrangeable in any order.
At the moment, the candidates for 23-30 (with the Annointment Trials spanning the exact middle of the season at 31-35) now are, in no particular order:
Mandora And The Pirates (Quickpick is at the coronation so his pardon here precedes it, I’d say 23 or 24)
Doctor Dometone (who is also at the coronation, should probably be about 29 or 30)
The Astral Prison
Excalibur
The Wolfrat (if “The Mumm-Ra Berbil” is the best thing we have to explain the realisation that Mumm-Ra is back)
Sixth Sense (mainly for reasons of balance)
Mongor (ditto)
We need one more - PLUS, if anyone can give a reason why any of the above episodes should come after the trials and not before, then an additional episode for each one removed!
Because the Mutants are using the veri-cannon, which was originally part of the Rat Star’s arsenal. So it must come after “Feliner”, and also “Jackalman’s Rebellion”, where Jackalman says he took it from the wreck when Vultureman wasn’t looking - they have therefore regained the cannon at this point.
I’m trying to remember if they used it in “Mumm-Rana” - in which the Rat Star is again wrecked. But it doesn’t matter either way.
Perhaps you begin to see why this is such a tricky task? So many little continuity points to sift through.
But I have remembered one episode I forgot to mention previously - “Queen Of Eight Legs”. If “Exaclibur” is coming before the trials, then so must this episode, because “Excalibur” has a flashback of it, as well as “Return To Thundera” (which has already been positioned anyway) and “The Astral Prison”.
Does anyone have anything definite to confirm which side of the Trials any of these episodes belong?
It is a great episode, you’re not wrong. And it’s a rare example of the Thundercats actually going on the offensive, sort of.
It’s because of the nature of the episode - “the Mutants will never rest until they get their hands on the Eye Of Thundera - so let’s give it to them” - has a season finale feel, that I’m inclined to place it as the last regular episode of season 1, i.e. episode 64, right before “Fond Memories” which sort of has to be no65.
However, if nobody can think of anything else that must come before the trials, or any reasons why the following episodes should come after them, we do now have eight candidates for episodes 23-30:
Mandora And The Pirates (Quickpick is at the coronation so his pardon here precedes it, I’d say 23 or 24)
Doctor Dometone (who is also at the coronation, should probably be about 29 or 30)
Queen Of Eight Legs
The Astral Prison
Excalibur
The Wolfrat (if “The Mumm-Ra Berbil” is the best thing we have to explain the realisation that Mumm-Ra is back, then this has to come before the trials)
Sixth Sense (mainly for reasons of balance, but definitely belongs before “Feliner”)
Mongor (again, for reasons of balance - the spaceboards and crabmen are the only continuity points I can see, both of which are already sorted)
So, how’s about:
Mongor
Mandora And The Pirates
Queen Of Eight Legs
Sixth Sense
The Astral Prison
The Wolfrat
Excalibur
Dr Dometone
This is not as cast-iron as the first 22, but is at least something we can build on. If anyone else can improve this section (whether by changing the order or replacing episodes with something more cast-iron), I’d love to see it!
LOL another reason I like it is because Lion-O’s more mature than when they landed on Third Earth. It’s fun to watch him fuss over Snarf for a change. :liono
Actually, I’ve just realised there’s a hole in my reasoning re The Astral Prison/Excalibur.
“The Astral Prison” introduces the Mutants’ thundranium cannon. Surely, if they had this technology during the Annointment Trials, they would not have hesitated to use it on an unarmed Lion-O. So it must come after the trials - and, because of flashback reasons, so must “Exaclibur”. Of course, “Queen Of Eight Legs” (also featured in flashback in that episode) could still come before or after, making no difference.
Come to think of it, perhaps Mumm-Ra’s revelation in “The Astral Prison” might be the best way of showing the cats he’s back after the annointment trials, and “The Mumm-Ra Berbil” can serve the same function after “The Evil Harp Of Char-Nin”.
This is an excellent discussion. Next time I watch an episode I will be sure to make note of any continuity points of it so I can contribute.
I’ve always assumed that the hand full of writers each wrote a chunk of episodes that they would intend to be shown in a certain order. After recieving the scripts the studio execs would mix the order up all willy-nilly because they were more concerned about production cost/time/something-else-that-isn’t-story-continuity… I might be completely making this up, but maybe there are continuity clues based on who wrote which episode?
You could have a point about the individual writers’ continuity - this is certainly the case with all the Leonard Starr episodes, and everything co-written by Julian P. Gardener, and also I’m pretty sure Chris Trengove - who I think wrote “Out Of Sight” and “The Superpower Potion”, the former comes before the latter because of Vultureman’s reference that his day will come.
The scale of the project is a bit on the large side, I agree - I came up with a perfect continuity order for “Visionaries: Knights Of The Magical Light” single-handedly, but that’s only 13 episodes, and again, there’s lots of easy continuity points that mean certain episodes have to come directly after others.
As for some further points on Thundercats continuity, here’s some more for the later part of the season:
In “The Transfer” Vultureman crashes his flying machine. It might be a good idea if this is the last time in the season that we see that craft. I know it’s fixed up again in season 2, but that’s season 2, he’s had time to fix it, and it is a useful continuity point for season 1 if it is out of action for the rest of the season after this episode certainly it means that two episodes that must then come after it:
“The Micrits” - in which the Mutants attack Cats’ Lair with Vultureman flying a Skycutter.
“Trapped” - in which the flying machine is not even mentioned as a means of recovering the suspension capsule - Monkian says the storm is too thick for a Skycutter, Slithe would have to take the Nosediver. Fair enough, maybe the storm would be too much for the flying machine as well, but it wasn’t even mentioned, so it must still be out of commission.
Or… maybe Vultureman wasn’t flying his flying machine not because it was wrecked after he crashed it in “The Transfer”, but because he hadn’t built / finished to built it yet. I say so because both “Micrits” and “Trapped” were aired long before “The Transfer” (even in Wikipedia, “Micrits” is listed as episdoe #41 to have been produced, “Trapped” is "49, and “The Transfer” is #54).
The Flying Machine dates back to “Lord of the Snows”. Also, this is a continuity order—LiamABC et al. have been shifting things around throughout, not based on writers’ intention or production order, but based on actual content. “Trapped” features the Feliner, and “Micrits” features Vultureman’s new voice, so both have to come way later.
Indeed. Mind you, it was only afterward that I realised it could equally well work with “The Shifter”, the flying machine crashes in that as well. So there’s an element of choice here. We could have them following one each, I guess.
Been doing a bit more thinking for the second half of season 1. If we are definitely having the Annointment trials as episodes 31-35 (and it feels right that we do, have it as a mid-season movie), then for episode 36 we need something to re-introduce the show.
Anyone got any problems with having “Turmagar The Tuska” as the first post-trials episode? It has the right feel, and the Tuskas are nowhere to be seen at Lion-O’s coronation. It’s also a good opener because there is a sense in that episode that they have nothing to worry about from Mumm-Ra and the Mutants. “The Astral Prison” would make a good next episode, re-establishing both Mumm-Ra and the Mutants, the latter now armed with Thundrainium weapons.
As for the first half, well 1-22 are cast-iron, I’ve been doing a bit more thinking on 23-25:
“The Wolfrat” should be one of them (because it’s Vultureman who talks to Mumm-Ra and not Slithe, it establishes his independence credentials early on).
“Mandora And The Pirates” should be one of them, because it would be as well not to have it too close to either “Mandora” or “Doctor Dometone” (which I’ve already said would make a good episode 30).
As for the third of this trio, well, “Mongor” is a good candidate, but for Lion-O’s increased maturity in this episode suggesting it should come a little later in the run. “Sixth Sense” perhaps?
